Infertility, Faith & the 'Is It Too Late?' Panic

Speaker 3 (00:00) Well, hello everybody and welcome back to another episode of Sugar, Spice and Spirits. I'm one of your hosts, Mindy. Speaker 1 (00:06) I'm Kelly. Speaker 2 (00:07) Natalie Speaker 3 (00:08) And we are here today in a really fun location that has some drinks that we will go through and tell you about them. This one has a fun little twist and we kind of made up the name. We will actually tell you what the drink is if you subscribe to our newsletter. But this one is make a baby margarita or it may want to make you have a baby or make a baby margarita. Speaker 1 (00:30) a baby not so much. Speaker 2 (00:33) Enjoy the journey. Speaker 3 (00:34) I mean, it's like you're on vacation. Maybe you need a vacation from your baby. I don't know. But it has been sitting here and before we let it melt, we're going to go ahead and try this thing. Let's see. Speaker 1 (00:50) wow, that's so good. It's cool. Speaker 3 (00:54) It's really good, really strong. This happens to be one of Natalie's favorite spots. Natalie, you want to tell them where we Speaker 1 (00:58) That's really good though. Speaker 2 (01:04) Natalie, never met a Natalie I didn't like. So if you're Natalie out there, hey, we're rocking it, right? At Natalita's, it's got a little twist, the Eda's, Natalita's Mexican restaurant is my favorite place to go and Angel's my server that I go to all the time. He's a young guy, just very, very clever and fun. So great margarita here at Natalita's. If you can't make it at home or don't want to make it at home, come on up to Natalita's and get yourself a good old baby making margarita. Speaker 1 (01:31) You won't regret it, it's really good. Speaker 3 (01:32) It's really good, it's really strong. I cannot imagine what the episode will be if we have to have a lot of cheersing and, you know, tangent tax. Speaker 1 (01:40) It may be a Call an Uber, Margarita. Speaker 3 (01:42) Absolutely, no drinking and driving. Notice I have tahini and chamoy on mine, they have salt on their rims. They're salty, little spicy sometimes. All right, so we're gonna get into the main dish today. And before we do, I wanna say that this episode could be a little triggering for some, possibly. are not doctors. I joke around and say we don't play one on TV, but we're not. mean, Kelly does have her doctorate in physical therapy and she does have the medical background. But what we're about to talk about, definitely talk to your doctor if this is something that you want to have a discussion about, or if you're struggling in any way with this topic, make sure you talk to somebody. We've got some resources that we want to share with you. And so now you're thinking, well, what could this episode be? So this episode is about how our views on having kids has changed over time from everyone should experience this to I'm happy without kids. Also infertility. and faith and the is it too late panic. My situation I think some folks can potentially relate to because I was that person that I wanted to have children. I knew right away it wasn't anything that anybody questioned and when my husband and I were pregnant I was that. happy pregnant person. Y'all, I gained over 90 pounds with the first baby. They thought I was gonna have toxemia. They thought I was gonna have gestational diabetes. No, I just, the only thing that increased was my sales because I was like, come on, we gotta feed the baby. And I was just the happiest pregnant person. And I say I gained over 90 pounds because after 90, I was like, why do we keep looking at the scale? Don't tell me what I weigh. And then second baby. both boys, I gained over 65 pounds. Still healthy pregnancy, so thankful for that. I think if it would have made sense in our lives, I would have loved to help others in that journey. I'm clearly much older than that right now. But Kelly, Natalie and I were talking about this and I mentioned to them that I can remember being that. I apologize to anybody. I was that obnoxious person. I didn't understand why somebody wouldn't want to be a parent because For me, the joy that I had, the love that I had, it was just this, I could never, I wish I could bottle the emotion and I tried to talk about it. I was like, it's like having butterflies in your stomach and you're always happy in the happiest of ways. And I had a few girlfriends that absolutely did not wanna have children and I was like, they're gonna see how happy I am. I'm gonna change their minds. No, no malintent. I didn't mean to be malicious. It wasn't that, it's just I truly was so euphoric and I was so happy and I couldn't understand why somebody wouldn't wanna have babies. And now, being much older, my oldest son is 23, my youngest son is 18. I have those friends who said they didn't wanna have babies and they didn't and they're still perfectly happy. I have a friend who said she never wanted to have a baby and then, ooh! somebody had a baby. And in her opinion, she was very glad that that happened. But I also have other friends who didn't want children and did have them and they love them. But they said if I could do it all over again, you know, I would rather be. a non-parent. And so we've got a lot of statistics that we're going to talk about today. It is a different episode for us, but it was something we were having a conversation about. And we even have somebody very close to us right now that's young and they don't want to have children at all. They're married. And I was having a conversation with them this weekend and I was just very open and listening. And the wife said to me, she goes, you're not pressuring me. You're not judging me. You're not making me feel less than I'm like, absolutely not. You know, this is your journey. And I am not going to be that person I joked around, told her the story about how opinionated I was in the beginning. But there's a lot of statistics that we're going to talk about today. There's a lot of reasons for you to know it is okay not to want to do that. But then I've got another friend who I absolutely love and adore. She's newer into her marriage, and she is a person of faith. So is her husband, and they're on an infertility and hopefully fertility. journey and I'm going to read something that she sent me later in the episode for you all because you might be able to relate to it. Maybe there's some good advice that's in here. But I'm super curious with that long opening that I just had ladies, you know, what are your thoughts? Can you relate to what I said? Was your experience different for perspective? know, Kelly's in her later 50s and Natalie and I in our later 40s. you know, there's a difference in generations too in the way the younger kids think or younger folks think. And I'll go through some of that, but I don't know who wants to go first, but I just wonder what your thoughts are. Speaker 1 (06:30) So I wasn't an unhappy person while I was pregnant. But I was the poster child for why I was not a pretty pregnant person. You will not find a picture of me pregnant. And I see these beautiful pictures on Facebook that they're showing their belly and they're holding their belly and they're posing. I'm like, hell no, you will not find a picture. Speaker 3 (06:47) One of my sister-in-laws. She can wear a bikini and she looks so good. I look back, my husband looks like a twig, and I was like three people, but I love being pregnant. Speaker 1 (06:56) Yeah, no, I did the same thing. I'm only five foot three and I was almost, I was 198 pounds when I delivered my six pound, 12 ounce daughter. So, I mean, you'd think I was delivering a kindergartener as big as I was, but the last day I got on the scales and that nurse just kept hitting it, hitting it, hitting it, and she... was like, oh girl, look at you. I finally told her, said, if you say something out loud one more time, you're fixing to be beat up by big fat pregnant woman. I was like, nobody in the lobby gives a I way. But I found out I was having a girl. I always wanted a girl. I thought to myself, just like you said, when I found out I having my girl, I'm like, I'm just gonna live it up. I ate what I wanted to eat. I didn't have any problems with it. I had very easy pregnancy, other than she was breech, so I did have to a C-section. Speaker 3 (07:29) cares. Speaker 1 (07:48) Other than that, yeah, I just was not very pretty. I had the acne on my neck and, ugh, anyway. But I wasn't unhappy. I wasn't unhappy. I just was not that little beautiful. You would not have pictures of me to show this is why you get pregnant. I was on the birth control poster. No, I'm just kidding. It terrible. But now everyone else around me said, my gosh, you're glowing. And I'm like, yeah, you're lying. I just ... didn't like the way I looked. But I was also physical therapist trying to treat patients and it was not easy sometimes to do my job because I was so big and pregnant. But anyway, I have no regrets, absolutely no regrets whatsoever. But yeah, I just was not, I definitely was not as euphoric and on top of the world and like you were, but it wasn't a bad experience. So I just was not very pretty. Speaker 3 (08:41) Like I said, I wish I could bottle that feeling, like those two times in my life. Of course I love my husband, I love my children now, but that feeling for me, and I do, feel bad, I know I had to be somewhat obnoxious. Speaker 1 (08:54) or just listen to you talk about it now, I wanna slap you. it's like, you know, I can't imagine. I'm just kidding, I love you. Speaker 3 (08:59) Hahaha Speaker 2 (09:00) So I had four pregnancies, four full term, and I know a lot of times that's the question, it's like how many pregnancies, how many miscarriages. I had four, first one elated, had a boy, had the pre-hypertension. Second one, beautiful pregnancy, beautiful delivery, just. And then the third one, she about killed me. So that was my girl, and she came in like 10 pounds, almost 11 pounds. She came in like a wrecking ball. That song was written for her personally. and she destroyed everything on the way out. So that was very rough as far as delivery and putting yourself back together after. Speaker 3 (09:39) I here going, ouch. I did have some bad delivery stories, but the euphoria made me forget them. Speaker 2 (09:45) of vaginal delivery. And then I was working on myself. I lost weight because I've always been bigger. And I had gotten down on my weight and was kind of living my life. I was living kind of separate from the husband, like just trying to find my way and focus on me and be better. And as my marriage counselor, the last one gave me a book, How to Stay Married in an Unhappy Marriage, you know, with the Faith. So I was doing my own thing, but I was still doing the Wifely duty and I ended up with a bonus baby and I definitely cried for 20 weeks. I was very upset that I was pregnant and this wasn't what I wanted. God knows my situation. Why am I here? You know, all those questions you go through whenever you have an unwanted pregnancy. And by 20 weeks I said, okay, time to put your big girl panties on. He's coming whether you like it or I like it or not. Speaker 3 (10:31) you Speaker 2 (10:38) And he's part of my testimony too, and this is what I tell him. said, you know, I didn't want you, but God knew a plan for you. He had a vision for you. And his delivery, I did it my way. I had a midwife, I had a photographer, I had, I still had my primary care doctor or my OB-GYN who delivered, or he didn't really deliver the other ones, but he was actually there for this one. And through the process, I just made it about me and I just wanted to do things the way I wanted to do. Nice. Everybody was in the room and my doctor is a, you know, control person. And the main nurse was just watching. It was like a chaotic show. And it wasn't until my mother-in-law came in, FaceTiming on Facebook, other family members, my birth, my vaginal birth, that I was like, everybody get out. Like, get the F out. Like, what is, what are you, why are you violating me? And I was really livid at that point. So he ended up coming, sunny-side up, twice around the neck. He had a big bulge in his head. It wasn't even like a cone, but it was how he was sitting. And it smoothed down. Don't worry if your baby comes out ugly, it's normal. And it smoothed down and he's been precious ever since. So was just- He's a cutie. He's a cutie. Speaker 1 (11:59) Thank you, cutie Speaker 2 (12:01) Definitely not, you know, everybody, I wish everybody could have your kind of experience, but I wasn't sick. I just had the preeclampsia, the high blood pressure. Speaker 1 (12:11) Which is scary and potentially life-threatening. Speaker 2 (12:14) The placenta ruptured on my third, which was rough. And of course the medical care was not good at that point with the female doctor that was delivering and it wasn't wrote in my charts and there were just things that were there. Like it was just traumatic, like the way the whole thing went down. So with that experience, I still, I wouldn't trade any of it for the world. I love it, love my kids obviously, although sometimes I want to take them out of this world. You know that saying. Speaker 3 (12:42) Enjoy this world, I can take you out. Listen, as a mother, there were times I was like, why, why, why are you testing me? Why was I so happy to do this? Why did I try this so many times? We had two successful pregnancies, you know, unfortunately, there was a miscarriage mixed in there too. Speaker 2 (13:00) very blessed to have a lot in my family's big contributor to the population. So all my family has like four kids plus. So it's just like a requirement for you to be one of my cousins. It's yeah, to have four kids to be in the loop. So just saying, we're helping the population here in the United States. Speaker 1 (13:20) I love my daughter. She's the thing in the world that's ever happened to me and I don't regret the decision that I made to have her. But I think I could probably be that one that I'm a worrywart. And let me tell you what, since the day she got here, And everything that can go wrong, I think can go wrong. know, when you're in the medical field and you see so many things, this will never happen, and you see it 15 times. Like, my gosh, you know. First time I dropped her off at daycare, I thought she's gonna roll off the porch and land on the ground and break her neck. You know, a kid's gonna bite her she's gonna, it was stupid, but I was still hormonal. But I'm probably one of those that would have been okay just to have lived my life and gone and traveled because I know I'm a worrier. And when you have kids, your life is not your own because you find everything to worry about. but I also felt an obligation. I'm an only child. And yes, and we have mostly girls in my family. And we have, you we now have a couple boys, but at the time I was the only girl. We had other girls and I thought, well, I can't be the reason why we don't carry on the name. So I kind of did it for that. I kind of did it for my parents as well. And my husband, you her father was, you he'd already had two kids. So, but he didn't have a girl. And so we took the chance of having the girl. And so, you know, at the end of the day, blessed, so happy. Like I said, it wouldn't change a thing. But. If I had been one of those that had struggled with fertility, I probably would have been okay at the end result, but if knowing I didn't have the option, that would have bothered me. I know it's different. The decision to not have children versus the decision when they say you cannot, because my mother was not supposed to have kids. And when my father was just about to be shipped off to Vietnam, guess what? Found out my mom was pregnant. And that saved him from having to go to war. So, know, yeah. Speaker 3 (14:51) you Speaker 1 (15:12) You're welcome, Dad. So, yeah, but my mom just had pretty much chalked it up, the fact that she couldn't have kids, and I was a surprise baby. so, yeah, I think for those that make the decision, I've got a very good friend that she lives in Alaska. She was one of my classmates, and she, her husband's a pilot, and they fly all over the world, and they live their life to the fullest. Now, I do not know if they chose not to have kids or if there was an issue. But another one of my very best friends, I don't know what her situation was, but I know she ended up having a surrogate, and God bless her, she ended up with triplets. I think they're about 15 or 16 right now, and I can't even imagine having a 15 or 16 year old, much less three of them. But she's an amazing woman, and her husband's fantastic, so she obviously wanted to have kids, and so they went to whatever lengths it took to get that done. So yeah, I can't imagine when you feel like you're feeling that strongly in wanting to be a mother. and experience that and then being told that wasn't possible. I mean, I can't even imagine what our little friend is going through right now and the expense and just the heartache, because I know her too. I know the friend that she's talking about and she's precious. They both are. And when you hear the compassion in her voice and the fear of something not happening and the pain of the emotional pain that they're going through, I mean, your heart just aches from, especially when you've got like this, you know, over the top rainbow person here who's like. it's all unicorns and rainbows being pregnant. You know, I can understand why you would even be so much more emotional for her because you had such a phenomenal pregnancy and not wanting someone that you know that wants it as bad as you to be able to experience that. So that makes me sad. That makes me really, really sad. Speaker 3 (16:50) And before we go on, I want to go ahead, because I've got some resources, we'll have some show notes for you, but if you are listening to this and for whatever reason it brought up some... just feelings that you have. You are entitled to every feeling that you absolutely had. It does not mean that it is wrong or if somebody is making you feel a certain way or whatever the case is. And so, you know, there's a lot of different places that you can go. There's some online places you can go. There's betterhelp.com. There's talkspace.com. If you want to find a therapist, you can go to psychologytoday.com. You can talk to your doctor. You know, hopefully you have some people around you who are your support system. If you're not and you need a support system, I'm like, we're moms. If you want to reach out to us, we're not doctors. You will just get a motherly, and it won't be me going, you have to do this. Remember, I was very, very young when I had all these feelings, and that's the way I thought it was because of my limited background. My mom's mom died when she was eight. Her dad died before she was born. She was from a foreign country. She was from Panama, and then she moved here. She was raised by a step-grandmother. My dad was an only child and the grandparents passed away earlier. And so I feel like growing my family was so important to me because I wanted to see that. And I'm not making excuses for being that obnoxious, happy person that I was, but as I've grown and I look at all of the feelings that people have and you know, the situation they're in. If you're somebody that does not want to have a baby, I got some resources for you too. There are some groups that you could be part of, you know, and feel empowered. I've got some stories. And so speaking of that, I thought that I would share some statistics. And so the statistics that I have, y'all, they come from Pew Research, P-E-W, and they look at adults 18 to 49, unlikely to have children, and 50 plus, without children is what this says. Hey, it happens. Adoption. happens. On the numbers, and these numbers have increased over time, on the numbers, just them saying they just don't want to. So the 18 to 49 year olds, I'll say that stat first, 57 % of them just don't want to. They don't want to have a kid. Speaker 1 (18:51) 50 plus any white children. Speaker 2 (18:57) Having a bonus, baby, I know. Speaker 3 (19:16) And then those that are without children, just, they didn't want to have kids, 31%. There's one step that kind of contradicts it a little bit. says 32%. They said they never wanted to have kids. Then another reason is they just wanted to focus on other things. The younger group, 44%, and then the other, the older group, 21%. I thought this one was interesting and I actually cut off the stat. Concerns about the state of the world. It goes long this way. I think it's less than 44 % but I did cut it off because I had another stat and then 13 % was with the older generation. There's stats in here that talk about you just can't afford to raise a child in this day and age. There's actually some that are concerns about the environment. Now I found this one interesting. So the younger group was 26 % and then the older group was 6%. So not as big, but we continue to see the environment, something that the generations are really starting to focus on. Some of them just haven't found the right partner. Okay, this one? don't really like children. And you know what? There are those people. Literally this weekend. don't have a baby. This weekend I'm texting back and forth with a family member, an extended family member, let's put it that way. So I'm not giving anything away. And she says, yep, she just doesn't like kids. So the stat here is, you know, they just don't like children. 20 % of the 18 to 49 year olds are just like, yeah, I just like kids. I don't, I don't want to be around them. And it was 8 % in that, younger group. Speaker 2 (20:25) Please don't have a baby. Speaker 3 (20:49) And then I thought these would actually be higher. Negative experience with their own family growing up. I could see how that could have a huge impact. It was 18 % for the younger group and 11 % for the older group. Infertility and other medical reasons, 13 % for the younger group. And this is where the tables turn a little bit. 15 % for the older group. And then we do also hear about when the spouse or partner just doesn't want kids. I sometimes that's, we're gonna do a relationship episode in the future and just not being on the same page. So the younger group was 11 % and the older group was 10%. Speaker 1 (21:32) So you know what's so funny is my daughter is so good with She's always worked at daycare. She loves kids. And I've always made the joke when she said she wanted to go work at the daycare. And I just kind of looked at her like, are you kidding? She goes, mom, just because you don't like kids. I said, well, I liked my kid. And it's not that it's just, you know, when you're in the grocery store or you're in the restaurant or the airport or the airplane and that kid is screaming and you're just like going, oh my gosh. You know, it's Speaker 3 (21:58) Tangent. And this is a good margarita. I stirred it. All the alcohol was on top or something a while ago. So now that I took a sip, we're doing a tangent. If you are one of those people that are in a public place, let's just call it the airport, and you don't put headphones in, and you're watching your social media or your movie or your training or whatever, please, please, please put your headphones in. Speaker 1 (22:26) I took my dad to get blood work and he was listening to his TikTok and there was every F word and I was like, I don't really care what you're listening to. And he was sitting there, his leg was bouncing and he was so focused. went, mm. Speaker 2 (22:39) when you your phone out and you turn your phone up. Lord have favor. I'm praying over them all. I'm praying favor over them all. Lord hallelujah. Speaker 1 (22:44) these people. I should have done that. Speaker 3 (22:52) Please let some headphones drop from the sky. Speaker 2 (22:56) When you're going and then this definitely is a tangent text. We all need to drink Speaker 3 (23:00) Gosh, I know. Speaker 2 (23:03) Kids playing a game in a restaurant like I know kids like are attached to their devices now, please limit your kids window time Speaker 3 (23:12) And I can see a parent come back, look, would you rather them scream and cry or would you rather hear this? I see that point, but this is how, so our- Speaker 1 (23:22) right now. Speaker 2 (23:24) or teach them to live without it. Speaker 3 (23:25) Yeah, our first child, literally would order our food to go. He was my little snuggle bug. If he was cranky tired or whatever the case was, we could not go out to eat and then he would lose his mind. He's actually super calm and everything now. We would order our food to go. We rarely finished a meal because we knew he was just going to cry and we tried. talked to the doctor about it, everything, but we'd get him. I would hold him. We'd go take a nap or whatever the case was. We would leave because I was like, he's miserable. my family's miserable and then the other people around me are miserable. So I know that was a tangent and probably somebody else going, that's why I don't want to have kids. Speaker 2 (24:04) But you raise the kid. granted each kid has person- I almost marked on your face. Each kid has personality and they have their own thoughts. I mean, I know my son has his ideology of how he's going to raise his kids and he's going to do this and that. He's going to do this and that. And being firm with some kids works and not being firm with kids. But I think also- The older we've gotten, when we go to eat and there's a fussy kid, like we want to help or we try and engage the kid if it can distract them and bring, you know, like a, what are they doing? What are they talking? You know, it, and I know there are still people that are like, why do you have a crying baby at the restaurant? Show some patience, show some grace for that type of thing. But like, audio, like that kind of, like there's a difference in a crying baby to me and a device that's playing that like, I already have ADHD, you guys know, you know, like how like a conversation finishing a story for me sometimes is very trying. So, so getting through it, but that's like a distraction beyond like a crying baby is something that Speaker 1 (25:13) Sometimes as a new parent, you need a change of environment. And you go and you hope that it's a distraction for you, but it's not gonna be such a negative impact and experience for anybody else. I'll never forget the first time I took Macy on an airplane. And here I'm trying to be nice and quiet. was on Southwest Airlines and they're funny. My mom worked for Southwest Airlines as a flight attendant and it was funny. When we walked in, here I am with her little baby, her carrier, and she's sitting next to me and I'm trying to be quiet, because I know when I walk in, I see, oh my God, you know, I'm like, I know, promise. But she she, she sat down, I sat down and strapped her in and everything. And next thing I know, I'm in the very front and the pilot says, ladies and gentlemen, you know, if you've noticed, we have a baby on board. I'm like, well, kiss my butt, really? Thank you so much. And he said, I just wanna let you know, this is a young mom and she's doing the best she can and if the baby gets fussy, if anybody thinks they can do a better job, get your butt up here and help her. And I was like, yeah. You know, of course, thankfully, she's the vibration of the, she slept through the whole thing and when we got ready to leave, was like, is that why she was such a good baby? I'm like, yeah, well, you know, I drugged her. I mean, I didn't. No, I didn't, I was joking. Anyway, but the thing is is that Speaker 2 (26:25) But back in the day, but it Speaker 1 (26:32) You know the pilot helped me out because I was the town he set the tone set the thing you think you can help Get up here and help her. Yeah, you know because obviously I look for apparently I looked really frazzled when I walked on the plane But that just that put me at ease and it made me deal with her better fortunately like I said she slept through the way, but there's just not it's but When you're someplace and you hear mama mama mama mama and as a mom you just tune it out I want to around you know what everybody can hear her Say it mama. And it just as a mom sometimes it just becomes so. Speaker 3 (27:03) Do you not hear her? know their paradigm. You don't know what they're going through. Speaker 1 (27:11) Exactly and I'm not judging. Because there are times when Macy would say, Mom, Mom, Mom. And all of sudden she goes, Kelly. I'm like, did you just call me Kelly? Well yeah, after I said Mom 25 times. sorry. Speaker 3 (27:25) Yeah. Well, you know, and you think about what they were able to do and how funny Southwest was and just other airlines and things you could say. And I don't know. I don't know. This is a fact, but you don't really hear that anymore because there's so many words you can't say. There's so much you can't do. And so that feeling of grace that came over you because of what they said, I don't necessarily know if they do say that. And, you know, it is, it is difficult. And so, you know, let's get back to some of the, some of the stats. Speaker 1 (27:55) That's on a way bigger Speaker 3 (27:56) I think it's great, remember, PSA, please put your headphones in, adults. Like, we're gonna give a little, ugh, for the kids, depending on the situation, but come on, please, please, please. All right, so another stat that I have from that same research from Pew, among adults under 50 who say they're unlikely to have children, large majority see financial and lifestyle advantages of not being a parent. And so, the younger generation in this. saying having time for hobbies and interests, they're reasoning 80 % of them. The younger one said, yeah, I wanna have times for my hobbies and my interests. And if we think about this for a minute, we think about the generation, you think about this generation now and we think about the Gen X generation and how we were just like, oh my gosh, what's gonna hurt my kiddo and we're so paying attention to them because our parents were like, yeah, you can go drink from the water hose and be home after dark. And we're like, let's think of every single thing that could go Speaker 1 (28:52) Mom, I'm bleeding. Is the bone sticking out? No, you're fine. Put a bandaid on it. See you later. Speaker 3 (28:55) So you're so obsessed with that, that you know, where is your time for hobbies and interests? And so they're about taking care of me. And then the younger generation that said they didn't have children, so 50 plus without, 57 % of them said it was because of hobbies and interests. And then the other reason financially is affording things they want to do. 79 % of the younger, 61 % of the older. Saving for future. 75 % of the younger generation saying, want to save for the future. Being successful in their job and their career, 61%. And so I didn't give you the stat for the 50 plus, they said 57 % saving for the future. But being successful in job or career, 61 % of the younger. Speaker 2 (29:42) Do not give your loyalty to a corporation. Let me just throw that out there like I understand why But do not sacrifice your legacy for our corporation Speaker 1 (29:48) Stay tuned because that's another part. Right, right. Speaker 3 (29:58) whether you have kiddos or not. I think that's something whether you have kiddos or not. Speaker 1 (30:03) Exactly. It's not about the kiddos. Yeah, it's about just that topic in general. So you can see she's got the first loops. She's very passionate about that. Stay tuned because that's another. absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Great stats. It's actually kind of surprising. For me, you know, and I know we're going to jump into this topic, my daughter, she has a wonderful partner right now. He has a daughter, so she's kind of, she's like my bonus grandbaby. I just love her to death, little tater bug. She just turned seven and I adore her. And I, you know, my new husband, he's got two grand granddaughters and I adore them. And you know, I tell my daughter, you know, what if you were single and you didn't have a partner? Speaker 3 (30:49) Bye. Speaker 1 (30:49) Do you want to be a mom? Because let's face it, in in today's society, being a single mom is very much okay to parents not being married and having kids, that's very much more accepted. But, you know, I just told her, said, she goes, mom, I want to have kids. Her best friend has a beautiful, beautiful daughter. know, I told Macy, said, well, you could help Lauren with, you know, with Presley and, you know, live through Lauren Vicariously. She said, but mom, I'm like, no, I get it. So you have to have that conversation because you have to say, you know what, it's so much more difficult to raise a child by yourself or raise a child with a partner who doesn't really want to be part of that child's life or whatever the case is. But there are those that are just really adamant like you. can't imagine if you had not met the man of your dreams, Travis, and had those kids. Would you have wanted to go ahead and have kids on your own? Maybe, it may not have been that appropriate back then, but if it were now, or you may not have known you were gonna have such a fabulous pregnancy. You are very career oriented. mean, you still are. You had great aspirations for what you wanted to do in your career, and you've been very successful. But I just kinda wonder, would you have wanted to go ahead and pursue motherhood? Had you not found your fabulous husband, would that have been? I don't know. It's hypothetical. Speaker 3 (32:16) I don't know the answer. I would love to sit here and act like I have all the answers. I have zero clue because... that's not the way the cards fell for me. And so I wanna come back to your daughter being a little bit older and thinking about what she wants to do, because that is a segment that I wanna talk about. I'm curious, do any of you have friends that said they never wanted to have kids and then they ended up having kids? Maybe they did adoption and that was just like, I have this responsibility, gonna have adoption. do you have somebody that they realize, like my friend, did not want to have babies. Now this is one friend and I have several friends that didn't want to have babies. In their late 40s and 50s they're super happy about not having them and being able to focus on their careers, some of those people, being able just to focus on their relationships and traveling. Did either of you ever have that friend that said, I'm not ever having kids? They ended up having a kid or 10, because I've heard about that too in some of the research that I did. their thoughts on it changed. Speaker 1 (33:23) I really honestly don't have anyone that comes to mind that had that oops baby when they had their whole life planned out and then my gosh look what happened I don't know I don't I may have a totally different story that I could that I could tell you but but no no no I don't have a friend that comes to mind that had that had that situation Speaker 3 (33:41) So this particular friend, she did not want to have children. She ended up having a baby and she is still able to be very successful in her career. She's actually a millionaire and it is one thing that changed her and while she was super amazing in her career path and what she was doing and how driven she was. Some of the things that she chose within her foundation and her path, she believes she's more successful because of that. Now that's just her story. There's so many others that can counteract that and that's interesting. Like one out of three, we have those friends. But I think what is more likely of us to have something in common is knowing those that want to have children. And then unfortunately they're not able to or they end up having to adopt and some choose adoption even if they could. Speaker 1 (34:38) biological children and then still choose to adopt. mean, every scenario is different. Speaker 3 (34:44) So I thought that I would bring this because you never know who is out there that is going through a fertility struggle, battle, challenge. And so I reached out to somebody that I love dearly. Like if this person called me and they needed something like almost to the point, I shouldn't say almost. I think that if I was of age to be able to carry a baby successfully and it not hurt my health and my children, I would carry a baby for her. Like I love her. Wow. Speaker 1 (35:14) You did have some good pregnancies think even if you had not had as good a pregnancy, I think the kind of person that you are, I think you would have done that anyway. Absolutely. I mean as long Yeah, because you're that person. Well, I'm not. Don't call me. It's not gonna happen. Speaker 3 (35:27) I would have done it for her. I mean, have to think about my husband and my kiddos, but as long as the likelihood of me being okay, would 100 % do that for her. So I reached out to her and I was like, hey, do you happen to be available so we can bring her on? she's not. She couldn't be here today. And I didn't know if she would send something to me. And she didn't respond the evening that I sent her the message. And it was later the next day that I received a message from her. And she said, you know, I really had to think on this. And I was nervous. I was like, my gosh, did I overstep those bounds because I wasn't meaning to overstep the bounds. was just like, your story could inspire and it could help so many. And so she sent this and she's like, take bits and pieces of it, read it, do whatever you want. And I feel like in order to honor her and her words, I'd like to read you what she said about her journey because it's been filled with faith and heartache and this is just, this is something that she said. And then I also asked her, Just so you know, are there things that people say that they mean well, but they end up hurting you? So there's two things that I want to read to y'all. And then if you have any thoughts on it, let me know. So when I asked her this, here's what she said. I prayed my whole life to become a mother. And this fertility journey has been a testament to the effort we are putting in to get the opportunity to create our family. The constant appointments, the medication, the hard conversations, the heavy tears, all become part of my daily life. But the hardest moments, I keep finding quiet reminders of why I'm fighting this. Sorry. There is beauty. I didn't want to cry. It's okay. Speaker 1 (37:22) Thanks. It's okay. You got it. Speaker 3 (37:32) I love her so much. Okay, back to her words. There is beauty in the kindness of the clinic staff who walks beside us, the strength in knowing we can't keep going or we can keep going even when it's costly, and the comfort in having an amazing husband and community who hold me through the hardest days. The path is heavy, but is also sacred because it is leading me towards the one thing my heart has longed for. I am learning to carry the pain and the gratitude together and to stay faithful as I want and to stay faithful as I wait for the child I have prayed for all my life. They are so precious and they are in their faith. And I pray for them, and if you are a praying person, I hope that you will pray for them, even though I haven't said their name, that they are given a child. I pray that they are naturally gifted with a child. I also know that if for whatever reason it's not in the cards, they are open to adopting. some crazy stats that I read about how adoptions are going down and there's different things that are happening, especially internationally in different numbers when it comes to US folks. But I don't want to go on that tangent right now. I just want to say if you are praying person, if you would please pray for our friends and her journey, no matter what it is. Because it's hard. And if you're going through this, we pray for you too. And feel free to send us a message because we are happy, happy, happy to put you on our prayer list. Speaker 1 (39:20) And I want you to continue, but there's a huge community out there that's going through this. And I mean, I know you gave a lot of dot coms and websites. I can't imagine there not being a support group. of men and women and couples and even husbands that are going through this with their wives and wives that are going through this with their husbands and that there's gotta be a support group out there. I don't know, I'm just, this is off the of my head, but I can't imagine anyone going through this journey on their own. I mean, I know when I dealt with my cancer journey and your family journey and everything, we all reached out to support groups, so I would imagine there's got to be some sort of support group. So even if we don't mention those, and Natalie may mention those, I'm not sure. Seek those out because there are so many people that are going on this same journey. We can try as much as we can to understand. I'm not gonna say we have empathy because we've not gone through that. I don't understand what she's going through. But support and love and how can we help, absolutely. But there are those who are in her exact same shoes. And I encourage you, if you're in those same shoes, to seek out those people. who are going through the same situation because they may have resources that you don't know about. sorry to have gone off the site. Speaker 3 (40:37) Absolutely, because she's talking about resources. Do you want to bring up some? Speaker 2 (40:39) Yeah, so Waiting and Hope is my church resource and it's a very... Like when I go to my church, I see kids running everywhere. It's bountiful, it's plentiful, and it's different kids, multiracial, multi-generational too, like grandparents with the parents and then the babies. We have special abilities, so capabilities or abilities is what they call it. So support is there. If you find the right church and you find the right place, there is a lot of good support. Waiting and Hope is one of those charities and you actually looked it up and I don't know if you're going to comment on it. We don't understand God's plan and we don't understand God's purpose. We know we want a legacy and we don't want to be selfish in what we leave and how we do things. I sometimes think it's selfish if you don't have babies because you're thinking about yourself, but then also maybe you are thinking about the kid and your paradigm is different with the world and what's going on and everything in it. But Waiting in Hope is such a loving charity that is for those that are just trusting and pursuing God in their journey along that route. They lost like the main leader. The father of Waiting in Hope for our church died in the plane crash in Louisiana. Speaker 3 (41:49) you Speaker 2 (41:58) which was very, very impactful. They had podcasts, they had all these resources. They still have those up, so if you wanted to go and find them, you'd... Speaker 3 (42:07) Natalie, did want to bring that up so whenever I was researching them. And I saw that about Justin. It was heartbreaking to see his family, but no buts. That was heartbreaking. But the mission that they have and the support that they give and the books that are there, if you're looking for a resource, and these are faith-backed resources, so if that's something that you're looking for, that definitely could be a place that you go. And thank you for sharing that so that I was able to look into it. Speaker 2 (42:38) Like, you know, it's if if you're infertility, I you know dealing with that struggle Definitely look at your diet your fertility specialists are not gonna tell you about your diet They're not gonna talk to you. They'll say cut out sugar or whatever keto babies Google keto babies like on Facebook keto babies are everywhere and there is a reason why they're keto babies Speaker 1 (42:59) because Speaker 3 (43:00) on keto I was the most regular I've ever been. TMI I understand. Speaker 2 (43:04) Keto and fasting are two beautiful benefits that your body can reset, reprocess itself that you don't necessarily need if you can't afford fertility and you want to do both hand in hand. I cannot stress to you in my circle of friends and the holistic more side of things how beneficial fasting and keto is especially with infertility. Speaker 1 (43:27) So keto was huge in the cancer community as well. Yeah, can't tangent. We'll go what we will do another podcast on nutrition and keto and everything because it's yes, it's Speaker 2 (43:29) Okay. I guess Speaker 3 (43:38) My husband just had a colonoscopy and we had a great conversation and I have video of him coming off the anesthesia by the way. I asked for permission, he doesn't remember it. I have not shared it. I have not shared it on social media. the doctor talking about fasting and the diet and just truly how much it can help you is huge with this and just in general. Speaker 1 (43:51) Yeah. Speaker 2 (44:01) Our US fertility rate sits at 1.62 birth. To be a replacement level is 2.1. And what that means is as a society without collapsing within itself and on itself, we have to produce 2.1. So you've got to replace yourselves and then have that little extra for the loss, like his accidents and different things that happen. So we as a nation are dying. And that is because of the choices, you know, it is unaffordable to have kids. You can't even live these days. So there's a lot of different things. Speaker 3 (44:32) If you're interested in it all they did talk about how because there are more and more individuals that are choosing not to have families not to have babies that that is it's going down there's some opinions there I didn't bring that research with me but along the lines of what you're talking about I'll share another resource for you in case you are dealing with infertility. The National Infertility Association, according to what I found, is called Resolve, R-E-S-O-L-V-E dot org. That's something that you can look at. And then we're not gonna get into it today. We alluded to both of us having miscarriages. You didn't say and you may not be comfortable saying, but there is also PregnancyAfterLossSupport dot org. That that's something that you can. I did not. I thought you. Speaker 2 (45:17) No, did not. had four successful pregnancies. Speaker 3 (45:21) Okay, I apologize. Well, you're And you just you never know but yeah, I did not know And I will tell you that was that was rough we have family members that had Speaker 2 (45:23) fine I just don't want Speaker 1 (45:26) No, no, did not. I did not. Can I ask you, was that between? Speaker 3 (45:37) the two between them so i wanted them closer together Speaker 1 (45:40) So I can understand how devastating that would have been for you because you were such the Mary Poppins pregnant person. And I can see how devastating that would have been for you because that was such a positive experience for you to be pregnant. my gosh, not that it's any less devastating for anybody else. I'm sorry if I came across like that. But yeah, think depending on where it lands, I think a lot of times could be it's gonna have a different emotional impact on someone. Speaker 3 (46:11) Well, super strange because I remember when my mom went through one and how hard that was and I was such a huge support system for her. But that's a whole other episode. Speaker 1 (46:19) You know what, my mom, I'm an only child, but I want to say that I do remember now that my mom went through one. Wow. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, Sorry. Speaker 3 (46:50) But do want to say this too. So if anybody has been through a miscarriage or multiple, when my dad died, and he was so young, he was in his 50s, and I remember going through, we went to the church and we were talking to our pastor and he said something that really hit me and it took me back to my mom's, I mean, it beat her down like, because she had to go through so much with her miscarriage. I remember him saying to my mom, you wonder and you question why would you lose someone? And he said, it's like this, you're like, and I'm probably not going to get it right, but it's like your life is on this span and somewhere marked in time, there's a feather of whenever it's your time to go. We don't always understand it, but where that mark is, that's where your reward is. And so our pastor said to my mom, he goes, He just got his reward early. And it made me think of the children that are lost and the miscarriages and you think of they got their reward early. And wherever you think about that, it was so meaningful to me and I've had so much loss in my life that it is one of those things where it's like I look at it that way. And I don't know who can take that away, but if you can take that away and you can look at that, I hope that in some way, some place, you've got that void. I know it will never completely fill it, but I hope it gives you some type of warmth in there. If you can think of it that way, it's gonna help you continue to move forward. So, with that, let's go ahead and... Speaker 2 (48:37) Yeah. Speaker 3 (48:44) Let me tell you about, because I don't want to forget this. So I asked my friend, who I read you their words earlier, and thank you for forgiving me for not being able to get through without getting emotional, but I really, really love her. So I said, I said, what were things that people said, and I put in, I put in parentheses, even me, had to, that they meant well, but they actually hurt. You know, so often when we give advice, we mean well and we don't realize that it hurts. And so here's what she said. Again, I'm going to read it verbatim because I think it's important for all of us to hear. There are for sure things that are hard to hear even when someone is meaning well. I think the main thing is unsolicited advice. As much as someone feels like they're helping with my husband and I, you know, I tried this medicine, I worked, and it worked right away. So try this medicine, it works right away. They told her, should try acupuncture. Here's a new diet, et cetera. It feels like it's a me problem. Like I'm already giving it my all. The best thing someone can tell me is that they're praying for me or they're praying for our future baby or they know I'm sad and there's nothing anyone can do. That's okay. So I know I botched it a little bit as I was reading it, but it's that unsolicited advice. I did this, it worked. She didn't ask for the advice and I will be one to say, guess what? I'm glad I put in there, even me. I probably, don't know for sure, but in our many conversations. Speaker 2 (50:37) but we go into the meaning well, like, hey, you're looking fantastic. What was I well, a well before? Like, am I looking good? It's the heart and what means well and what has worked for other people. Sometimes it is that piece of nugget or information. Now I have an aunt who's been very instrumental in my life and she would always text me on my dad's death anniversary. And I am not a negative remember of things. Like I'm very good at packing that stuff down and not remembering or like, hey, yeah, it's my dad's death month. Okay, yay, miss you dad. Wish you were here to experience my life. But he's not. And so when she would text me, just like, you know, you can stop. I appreciate you remembering. You can say your prayers or whatever you need to do. But that's not for me. Speaker 3 (51:26) So that's great advice because I'm the opposite. Absolutely the opposite. When my dad died, when my mom died, I wanted people to remember their anniversary and who they were. And when I didn't get those texts of people, because I would be that person that would send that. it's like, we don't know, right? And you communicate. then telling people. Speaker 2 (51:47) The communication you love. Speaker 1 (51:50) Well, you know, when my husband passed away, a little over five years ago, the first couple years, his birthday, happy, you know, I've had two husbands, happy heavenly birthday, you know, we miss you so much, Merry Christmas in heaven, blah, blah, and it finally got to the point where when you realize that your life has to go on and you stop making those posts, you almost feel guilty. because you don't want anyone to think that you have forgotten because of my God, of course you haven't forgotten. But there are those that it's like, if you don't think I don't know what this date and this date, how profoundly they impact me, I do remember. I don't need you to remind me on this day, know, because I, for the first three years on this day, I know you left us and we miss you so much. And after a while, and I don't know if, whether I was seeking that, my gosh, we're so sorry and we support you, but at some point you realize you have to move forward. So I was like that for a little bit and I wanted that impact, but I also wanted other people around me to realize he was so significant to me that I didn't forget that. But yet at some point I was like, I've got to move forward. And I would feel bad when other people would say, my gosh, you happy birthday and I was like heart heart heart because I just everybody's different and you have to be respectful of their Speaker 3 (53:23) Well everybody's situation And that's why think communication too. If you love somebody and you appreciate what they're trying to do, but if you communicate with them, even if it upsets them for a minute and you're just like, I appreciate all of your advice and what you're doing. Right now I'm really not looking for advice. I'm looking for you just to understand I'm not in a good place or I need your prayers or I just need your support. And then in the situation of you or me or whatever, I mean, ask me, did I ever text people and go, I've texted you all the time and asked you how you're doing. You don't text me. they're like, you're so strong. Why would I do it? You don't know that paradigm. So that's where communication comes in. And so before we wrap, I had one more segment that I wanted to talk about because there are those individuals that are getting a little bit older and they're thinking, I actually, can I have a baby and can I do it on my own? And Kelly, you had actually brought this up and maybe think, so I had, it was called maybe baby, is it too late? And so knowing individuals that always have wanted to be a mother or even a father. and being able to do it on their own. And the thing that I'll say, and then I'll open it up to you as we wrap up, is it is so much more acceptable these days to do it on your own. And if it's something that you want, Speaker 1 (54:50) I Speaker 3 (54:51) I mean, go for it. And if, you there's circumstances that we can't even cover, we would know all of those. But there are folks that have always wanted to be a parent. And there's so many kids that are in need of a great parent. And then those that could have the baby on their own. And you might not be with the spouse. But I mean, there's a lot of things that you can do. Speaker 1 (55:19) Yeah, no, I I just I think to each his own I think if you if you have that that component inside you that you just want to share your your world and bring another child into the world and and Teach them and grow with them that I yeah, thank goodness we're in it we're in the times when you can do that and you're supported not only by your friends, but by society and everything. Even when you've got your husband or your wife or whatever next to you, your partner, and it's still a huge undertaking. And if you have your church and if you have your friends and have your family, it doesn't matter. It's still a huge undertaking. So whatever support system you've got, more power to you if you decide, you know what, I can do this. I have a niece that had some beautiful kids and she was young. And she will openly tell you I made some mistakes. And she recently got with another partner and she had a young child. And she put out on Facebook, she said, you know what? God's given me a third chance. Her first two kids are phenomenal. They are the best kids in the world. But she will tell you, I wasn't there for them. Thank God for my parents because I wasn't there for them. But now she has this new one and she is just excelling and she is the best. She's always been a good mom. But now she realizes where she could have done better. And this new little one is like gonna be just on top of the world. But at this point in life, she could do it by herself. Speaker 2 (56:52) because not of her story, because of my own, because I have my 24 year old, my 22 year old, my 19 year old, all great kids. And then I have my bonus baby. And it's like, I get to do all the things right on this one, because I screwed these kids up here. I see where I did wrong or where they were impacted. It's fun. Speaker 1 (57:08) But you know what? They're not screwed up. They're not. They're not. not. They're not screwed up by no means. Neither are kids. Her kids are the best kids in Speaker 2 (57:18) I see their faults because you're I mean I'm a realistic parent I see their faults they see mine I wasn't a perfect parent so it's not I'm not throwing shade anywhere my kids are great they're they're very smart capable brilliant people they've done things that I just sit back and I'm like Speaker 3 (57:33) My kids are great. I also chased a career and I had an amazingly supportive husband. Speaker 2 (57:39) But with the bonus baby, it's different. And I have, you know, I do believe there's value in having a strong male figure in your kids' lives. I think that we underestimate with our women power and I'm an independent woman, I don't need anybody. However, value and strength and leadership, what that a man brings and that if you don't, if you are gonna pursue it on your own, Speaker 1 (57:54) Now you're right. Speaker 2 (58:03) I pray for you, I wish you much success. There's a lot of kids that need love that aren't getting the love that they need. But I also would strongly encourage and suggest, like I did with my older kids, like their dad was not the best father figure for them. So how can I align and position my kids to be around strong male leaders, whether it's in the church or it's the coaches. or it's, hey, you can trust this person, you can reach out to them if you ever have a question that's a male question. Putting those male figures in their life that you trust, not necessarily spending the night and having sleepover kind of things, which can lead to other things that aren't appropriate, not saying that any of his coaches ever did that, I don't know, and I pray not, but just strong Christian men in their lives to be the male leaders and the mentors that they needed. So that would be the only caveat and thing that I would say. plenty of kids to love, plenty of kids out there that need that, whether you're adopting or you're doing it on your own, however you choose to go, have strong male role models that you're asking them to step up to be a safe haven, whether I know Catholics have the Godparents. And I mean, my pickers was broke on the first one, I feel, know, so I can sit here and say stuff, but it's also because I lived it. I did it and I thought I had a great guy. and you know we all grow and evolve and change through the process so that's all. Speaker 3 (59:30) So the thing that I'll add to that is have strong role models. Male or female, have strong role models. role models being they're open to others' opinions, not just the women are the best, the men are the best, the this, the that, the la la la la la la la, and this divide. Have strong role models. Whatever situation you're in, we don't know. We all have our own opinions. Speaker 2 (59:53) Assuming if you're an independent woman, you're a strong role model, so you need the melon there. Speaker 3 (59:57) or another strong role model. Like it could be another woman. Like you could have different people in your lives. And so I get it. I understand where you're at, you know, as long as you're open to differences of opinions and there's not just one way. Just like there's not just one way. If you want to have a baby, have a baby. If you don't want to have a baby, don't have a baby. And if you are struggling and you want to have a baby... You know what, we will pray for you. will, you know, anything that we can do. We'll put some resources. Please talk to your doctor. If you need to talk to somebody that has training in that, find the right therapist. We shared some resources. We'll put it in the notes. I hope somewhere out there, there was some sort of nugget information that made you laugh. You know, it made you, you know, can relate. made you think and then you know hopefully gave some hope or some insight. Speaker 1 (1:00:52) More than anything, we hope you don't feel alone in your journey. Whatever your journey is, whatever your decisions are, don't feel like you're the only one that's made that decision because you're not alone. I think that's what we're trying to send is that there's always support no matter what pathway you're going down. So don't ever feel isolated and alone because you're not. Speaker 3 (1:01:11) You're not alone and here's what we say. No matter your situation, cheers to you. Cheers to you. We appreciate you. And until next time, cheers. Cheers.