Gen Z vs Boomers: The Leadership Gap No One Is Talking About

Speaker 2 (00:00) Well, hello everybody and welcome to another episode of the Sugar, Spice and Spirits podcast. I'm one of your hosts Mindy and we've got Kelly. Speaker 3 (00:09) And Natalie. Speaker 2 (00:10) We are excited as always to be here. When it's a recording day, y'all, we get really excited. We love doing this. And today we are going to introduce you to our sip of the day and change things up and give you just a little bit of an appetizer of what's been going on with us. And so without further ado, before we get into the main dish, our sip of the day is brought to us by Bing Pizzeria and Draft House in Alvin. They have been kind enough to let us film here. And it is a creamy vanilla espresso martini. Take a try, ladies. Is it time? It's go. Speaker 3 (00:41) Was it? Speaker 1 (00:43) Go time. Speaker 2 (00:47) that's really good. Speaker 3 (00:48) Perfect. Speaker 1 (00:49) That could make you run fast and jump high. Speaker 3 (00:51) I don't know about all that, but you know, it definitely lights a fire under you. Speaker 2 (00:55) That's really delicious. And it's so small. Speaker 3 (00:59) You know, but this is a great like start of the day beverage, right? You don't want to go hard. Well, this is kind of hard, but you don't want to go hard right off the bat. So good job. Speaker 1 (01:02) Yeah. Speaker 2 (01:12) I think Kelly's really enjoying it. It's really really tasty And I tell you what, the pizza and the food here is really good. They actually have one of the biggest pizzas I've ever seen. We'll have to look it up. But it's like the size of this table. It's crazy. And the service is wonderful. James and TJ are fantastic. And we're just happy to be here filming today. And so thank you to them. And so as I mentioned, one of the things that we're going to start doing, because Natalie had a great idea, is we want to give you a little appetizer. I want to share with you what's been going on with us. Wait, I thought we were going to food. Oh. Speaker 3 (01:46) She wants that. Speaker 1 (01:46) They say appetizer, I'm thinking wings and speaking of they have a great appetizer menu here too, so I digress. No, no, no, I was joking, I was joking. I'm just... Oh, my appetizer. Speaker 2 (01:54) You talk about Speaker 3 (01:57) What's your appetizer? Speaker 1 (02:00) Like what we're gonna talk about so So something that I've that I got to do So those that those of you guys that don't know we're from a small town Angleton, West Columbia, Lake Jackson, little small, you know pod of towns Cam Ward who is the quarterback for the Tennessee Titans is from there and so just recently I guess last weekend we big huge group of us flew to Nashville and of course I supported the Texans but I wore a turquoise to support Cam also but we went there to see our local boy do so good, we still want Texans though but hang in there Cam. But it was neat, he's got a really really super super sweet family and Roy Ledbetter from Marquee Construction invited us to stay in one of his suites at the beautiful stadium. Speaker 2 (02:41) It was real- Speaker 1 (02:46) that they've got there and we've had a really good time. got to support Cam and his family came up to the suite and we got to see them and it's great to see a local boy just do really good. I mean he's a rookie so he's struggling a little bit this year but all the different Titans fans that we talked to are so ecstatic to have him there so it's just neat to see our little local guy do so good. Speaker 2 (03:06) Yeah, I saw your and Michelle snaps and the suite looked incredible. My husband and I weren't able to go to this particular game, but it was really neat that you all were there. was like Brazoria County took over. Speaker 1 (03:17) yes, Nashville. It was great. Nashville's a great place. We had an amazing... Speaker 2 (03:23) podcast from Nashville we should do a podcast from Nashville Speaker 1 (03:27) that roll away we could use a suite Speaker 2 (03:33) How about you? Speaker 3 (03:34) goodness. So the flip house that we actually did the podcast ad, we actually closed and got that, you know, finalized. It's never really closed until it's funded. So that's funded. So feeling great about that and just moving forward. And I actually got to see you give a presentation. Speaker 1 (03:40) Congratulations! Speaker 2 (03:52) did so Natalie of course being a realtor and does mostly on the investment side of realty. was speaking for the Houston Association of realtors and I said, now would you like to come and join and she did. It was great. I did a session on the human advantage because AI is taking over so much and just really getting back to the foundation and to the basics of. what it means to provide a service and how you can make yourself stand out, not by avoiding AI, but by incorporating it into what you do and just remembering the fundamentals. And what was really, really neat was when I would see the eyeball, the light up moments of, you're right, or, I should do that, or, yes. And the comments, they were, was pretty incredible to get the feedback at the end of it, Natalie. I hope you enjoyed it. Speaker 3 (04:38) what? Yeah, no, absolutely. I enjoyed it. The presentation was good because I think so many, so many times we forget the human aspect of things and your ability to point out side by side, how even in the realtor space, and I work with more than just investors. I work retail as well with new homes and that type of thing. But even in that space, like just showing side by side, how your involvement and actual paying attention to what you're doing can be so impactful. And as a realtor, I think so many times we go on autopilot and there's that human component. You're dealing with people's livelihood. And I think you hit it out of the park with your presentation. was a great, everyone in there was good participating because you're very active when you present. And I think that's huge and powerful. So yeah, was a great job, Mindy. Speaker 2 (05:30) check's in the mail. All seriousness, that was really cool and that actually leads us into what we're going to talk about today because while we were thinking of it from that side in the presentation that I had, today we're going to talk about leadership and leadership is something that a number of organizations are struggling right now. It's also something where we're seeing because now we have five different generations in the workplace that it is becoming more and more difficult for all of the different generations to understand each other because if you think about the way baby boomers are, which they were raised on loyalty, Gen X raised on independence, millennials raised on that balance and creativity, and then you have your Gen Z, they're raised on self-advocacy. so I did some research before coming in here with this topic and one of the things that it talks about, of course we all know I said it, first time in history five generations are working together and engagement across the board is down and so it's at a decade low only 32 % of employees in the US say they're actually engaged at work. That came from Gallup and y'all that's not a small issue. It's truly like an emergency, a leadership emergency. If only 32 % of your teams feel fully engaged, what's happening with the other 68 %? Like think about that for a minute. If only 32 % are fully engaged, what's happening? And I hear from associations and different companies that I look at speaking for, they have a focus on leadership and they don't want the fluffy stuff. They want the real stuff that you can actually implement. And this is one of those times where oftentimes, You're more seasoned associate, they're used to doing things in a way where it's like, okay, loyalty and trust and overseeing the day to day is enough. And it's not anymore. You have to actually be involved. You have to mentor. The younger generation wants to know that you're hearing them. One of the things that is so sad and it's a hard truth for many leaders is understanding that empathy is not being weak. Empathy is actually a very strong tool in your arsenal, in your toolkit that you have. Empathy doesn't mean that you agree with everything that's being said. What empathy does is it allows you to listen to what the other person is saying, listening to understand, not listening to... Speaker 1 (07:51) Understand? Speaker 2 (07:54) reply to give a response and there's a huge huge difference with that and when you can learn how to not only have empathy and Listen and let that person know that you understand and then give them Details about what it is that they're doing and how you're going to go about that Clarity is one of those things that's missing with a lot of leaders today also and just because you did it one way does not mean you can continue to do it. It's not going to keep working. You're going to have to change. And it makes individuals feel very insecure. here's another hard truth. Oftentimes, are, you know, people are promoted into leadership positions. Speaker 1 (08:31) Yes. Speaker 2 (08:40) without the real experience, without the real training. That makes it even harder. I don't know what y'all are seeing, what you're hearing from your kids, what you're seeing just in general. Speaker 3 (08:50) Well, when you bring up listening, not to show weakness, but listening for empathy, that's just the seven habits of highly effective people. Let's go old school, Stephen Covey. Seven habits of highly effective people seek first to understand, then to be understood. When you bring up, there's more than, you know, like I always say, there's more than one way to skin a cat. It's so true, even in parenting and in life, it's like... Speaker 1 (09:14) you Speaker 3 (09:15) When my ex used to yell at my kid when he would help with something and it's not just my ex because he's the ex but parents in general, no do it this way or when they're in the kitchen learning to cook how are you guiding and how are you leading like how did you want to do this how do you see we do this like posing questions and leadership is a great way to lead like because you can learn and if you're not learning and growing you're dying and they're that that's so important like to get thoughts like if you don't have a solution and your team has an issue or your client has an issue, what's the solution? Bring it to the team and let them fly. Let them let the ideas roll off. Yes, if they're if they're being heard, they'll be more engaged. Absolutely. It's it's it's amazing to Speaker 1 (09:54) Become engaged. Speaker 3 (10:02) The ideas and simplicity sometimes people will come up with. It's not complicated. You don't have to run around the lake, click your heels twice, swim across it and come back to cross the lake. Like there's so many different things you can do. And when you stop, sometimes it's like, should have had a V8. I knew that. Speaker 1 (10:20) A lot of times we look for the complex solution when it's really the very simple solution. But it's because as a leader, think sometimes we look for those expanded answers and it's like, you know, so not too long ago we were having what I thought was an electrical issue and we were gonna call the electrician and all of a sudden walk over and I'm like, oh look, it's the GFC. Oh, it's fixed. But it's like you think, oh my gosh, we've got this big. and it's like you have to start from the basics, the foundation, and sometimes that's the old school, and then you've got the different generations that bring other aspects and other ideas in, and it can kind of get all mixed up because you have, like you said, different parenting skills, leadership skills, so that's a great point of just being able to put it all together in the stew pot and hopefully come out with a good soup, but it's tough. Speaker 3 (11:12) Yeah, companies with high quality leadership development programs are nine times more likely to outperform financially. And that sources McKinsey growing leaders and growing profits. If you're not pouring into your leaders, where are they getting information? If you're not revisiting your mission, if you're not revisiting your company goals, where are they getting that? Like it's so important that you pour into them, not only into the team, the whole team, but to your leaders and you bring in trainers and you. are honing them and you're allowing them to go to events and do things that are above and beyond the daily work and keeping up with KPIs. Speaker 2 (11:51) Yeah, I was reading a study and I've got some notes here it was by Deloitte and it's about Gen Z and the Millennials. They've been doing it, think, don't quote me on it, but I think this is the 14th one that they've put out and they said that 77 % of companies say they have a leadership gap and that means that these roles aren't being filled and so that means people aren't being prepared. And so when I was reading this, what was interesting is it said that in many ways it really shows that Gen X and baby rumors need to understand how different the generations are. According to a stat used in their report, 74 % of the global workforce in 2030 is gonna be Gen Z and millennial. It's around the corner. And then the report highlights that Gen Z and millennials, they're ambitious, but not necessarily wanting to climb the corporate ladder for leadership roles. So this is a potential problem. Speaker 3 (12:36) Five years. Speaker 2 (12:49) It is a potential problem in my opinion that if we're not emulating what somebody wants to be and we're not mentoring and all we're doing as leaders is checking boxes and going through these checklists and saying, well, I'm overseeing the daily operations and I've hired a great team. They don't need me to micromanage them. That's another problem is that some leaders feel like if you're asking questions and simply holding individuals on your team accountable and than not looking at as you're supporting them, you are doing yourself and your company a disservice. You may have the best people on your team, but if you always let them work independently and you do not give them the mentoring opportunities and giving them the support and letting them know they can talk to you and bring things to you, there's going to be problems that slip through the track the cracks and if they think they're doing a great job But you're not monitoring it and giving them feedback. What are they doing for their teams? What if they are letting their teams run independently because they're such a good Independent worker and then it goes back down. I go back to the younger generation, especially the Gen Z They want to be mentored. They want to learn I've got some stats in here that talk about most not most, a number of Gen Z are planning to make a move in the next two years. Same with millennials. I think their number is only about 17%. I'll have to look it up here in a minute. But they're making moves because they feel like it's not job hopping. Y'all remember if you weren't at a job for three years, you were a job hopper. You looked in the Speaker 1 (14:25) And you looked unstable and unreliable and undependable because they don't want to train you and then you leave and go do something else, but it's it's Undependable. Undependable? I do have a degree y'all. I'm so sorry. not dependable hows that... Speaker 2 (14:43) Not dependable, there you go. But if you think about it, they want to make sure they're learning. And if you are a leader that, I'm not saying you get in the trenches every day, but you go and you ask questions. What can I do to help you be better at your job? Not, let me know if that doesn't make sense. There's a huge difference with that. Speaker 3 (15:04) So most companies admit their leadership bench is thin. Only 12 % of organizations say they have a strong leadership pipeline. If you don't know on your team, like if you're upper, you're a C-suite and you don't know your team, like I'm not talking middle management, I'm talking your team, like lower level, what their goals are, what they aspire, what they're good at, you're losing out. Like you are missing out on prime rib right there because these people, some of them are hungry, they need the mentoring, they don't even, plant that seed and water it like, hey, you know what? You're really strong at this. Have you thought about that? yeah. Speaker 1 (15:40) But on the flip side of that, you being the CEO, you being the CEO, you being the final responsible party, if you do have weak leadership because they checked the boxes but they didn't meet the leadership qualities, whether it's from personality, whether it's from just being able to relate to their team and knowing what the team goals and the vision and the objectives are, then guess what? That mess trickles up. And at the end of the day, If your company is not successful, is it sometimes because you're a bad CEO or COO Not always. It's because your little worker bees may not have been in the right seat. And if you don't get to know them, you don't get to know them and know their strengths and their weaknesses and their qualities, just because this one says, I checked these boxes, you're great over here, but I think you're going to be better over here. And they may move lateral and they may just get a more beneficial position. Speaker 2 (16:28) you Speaker 1 (16:35) And the CEO can look down and say, okay, wow, I really did put a great team together. It's because they listened to those below, who listened to those below, who watched and mentored to make sure that team and that foundation was satisfactory. Speaker 2 (16:51) I had a great boss and mentor, I will call him. Years ago, his name is Robert Cote, he's still around, thank you Robert for all of the books that you gave me. One of the books that you told me about was Jim Collins, Good to Great. It's still a great book. There's one by Jim called How the Mighty Fall. There's another one, I've read all of them, but when you said that, having the right people in the right seat on the bus, yes. But then also as a leader, knowing when you've moved that person around and they're not a good fit or they're toxic, you have to get rid of them. And that's a hard conversation for people to have, but it's because you've listened, you've worked with them or you've worked with their supervisor, you've put plans in place to see if they truly do want to work. But if you're allowing toxicity, that will become part your culture. The other thing and the other problem that I see with leaders most often, and especially young leaders, is that they don't want to give feedback and fear of not being liked. Listen, leadership isn't about a trophy. And if you're in it just for the rewards, you're in it for the wrong reasons. Leadership is about helping others. And when you help others, it's for the greater good. And so you have to get rid of the toxicity. And that's not a difficult thing. But the strongest leaders understand that. And it's not ruling by an iron fist. That's not what we're saying. It's listening, having that empathy, but also having the ability to be very direct after listening. and making sure your employees understand very clearly. Clarity is a buzzword, but clarity is something that will make people leave. Most individuals don't leave a job because they don't like the job, they don't like their leader. They don't like the culture that you ultimately are creating, and that is super, super important. And one of you said something earlier, and I wanted to bring this up about... how do you encourage your different team members to help them learn? So I've brought up Gen Z. I am studying Gen Z, y'all. I am trying to learn as much as I can, not only because I'm a mother of one, but just because I need I mean, let's be real, I need to remain relevant. I've got to learn everything that I can about AI. I've got to learn everything that I can about how to understand all the different generations. I I have to stay relevant. That is something that I worry about. So you will hear me talk quite a bit about it, but I was thinking about this. I wrote it down here. This is something that you can do with your teams and your different generations to make them feel worthy of helping others. And worthy is not the right word, valued. When somebody feels valued, it's incredible what it will do. And then if you have the different generations working across from each other, everyone's helping each other. And so I have here, know, Gen Z have them mentor on innovation and tech. The younger generation can mentor and they feel so valuable and then they're creating lines across boundaries, across generations where the other person is opening up to them. So then you could have your millennials who are collaborative and they're creative. They can mentor on collaboration and creativity. And then your Gen X, that we are. Your Gen X that independence and logic, you know, we hear we see all the funny videos on tik-tok and how you know We grew up and we would go outside out once the Sun came up and we came inside after the Sun came down We drank out of the water hose, know, you laugh at us, but we do have a lot of stories It's not our fault. We were raised this way. Just like it's not our fault Well, maybe it is our fault Gen X Gen Z was raised the way they were we're the parents, but you know technology we can't change Speaker 3 (20:28) You know, we make mistakes too. Speaker 2 (20:30) So you've got, know, Gen X, that independence and logic. Think about that. Mentoring on how you can do these things independently and think logically in this way. It's going to help you. All of these tools work together. And then last, the boomers. for their wisdom and strategy. So being able to say, it's not that we always did it this way and it worked. It's here's what my years in the business bring to the table. I'd love to learn from you on the tech side. How can we work together, millennials come in for collaboration? and then take these assignments and work independently. You tag your people that want to be involved, that want to grow, and they want to mentor. Give them those kind of roles. Imagine what you can do as a leader. And then you're not so worried about the turnover that is inevitably going to happen if people don't feel valued. Speaker 3 (21:24) So 57 % of people quit because of their boss. That's you. Not the job. And that's according to DDI Global Leadership Forecast and that was in 2023. So a way that I see in society and workplace here, I know you've seen it, is still in credit. Like when you still credit, like, I don't care if it's the janitor that brings an idea. Yay, janitor. Like, thank you for being, thank you for caring about the company enough to bring that idea to the forefront. Speaker 2 (21:56) Before you move on, I gotta call it out. Most often, when I'm working with companies and I see a leader that steals credit, it's a brand new leader who feels like they have imposter syndrome, or it's a very seasoned leader that feels like, or has imposter syndrome because they feel like they're not valued anymore. They feel like they're getting, they're moving out. And so when you realize that... It is okay that it wasn't your idea and you give credit. Like I always try to do, hey, Nat, you brought this idea to the table. When you steal another employee's idea to make yourself look better, it may in the very beginning help you or you may feel okay with it, but it will end up biting you and you will have so much resentment from your employees. They will start to shut down and they won't want to share ideas or they will go behind your back. So please don't do it. Giving credit to your teammates only. Build your credibility. Let me repeat that. Giving credit to your teammates where it's due, whether they are subordinate or not, builds your credibility. Speaker 1 (23:00) Not to mention that I worked at a place a while back that the workplace morale was terrible. I left, I've got several ladies that are still there and we get together every once in while and we call ourselves the snarky gals and we get together and we're like... And I'm sitting back, I'm like, oh my God, I'm so glad I don't work there anymore. But they, and it's the same story. And it's the leaders that don't listen. They do think the way they're gonna do them and the workplace morale is just so horrible. And I mean, I feel for them so bad. And there's several of that left for different reasons. I was in a management and leadership role. And I, because I was in that position, I heard through the grapevine some of the things that were, that were gonna happen and they literally made, me in a position where I had to really put a lot of my team out on the ringer. I'm like, I can't do it. And I said, that's the way you work, that's not how I work. And I resigned. And I just, you know, and I listened to some of these people and you you talk about being able to bring the different generations together. I mean, let's face it, there's a lot of impatience when Both ways. Both ways. Oh, yeah. When my father calls me, God bless him and says, I can't get a remote to work. I'm like, oh, geez Louise. You know, well, he also grew up where he had to go mess with the rabbit ears. yes, and heaven forbid, he's like, why are these 9,000 channels? I'm like, just use five. You know, and we get impatient. And when you've got these seasoned leaders who are not used to everything being at their fingertips, there is a lot of education. Speaker 2 (24:26) Peace. Speaker 3 (24:31) Three channels Speaker 1 (24:47) And you can't belittle them because there is so much wisdom. Because look what they went through. They went through depression. They went the depression, not depression, but the depression. The market crash. They're scared to death of things like the unknown. And then you've got these other ones that come in and they're like, oh yeah, I got bitcoin. And then you're like, wait, what? And it's like you're speaking foreign languages. And it's difficult to bring all of that together. And a good leader is the one that recognizes that and says, OK, you know what? We all have something to give. We all have something to contribute. And at the end of the day, it's going to make everything so successful. But you have to be tolerant and accepting and understanding to bring that all together for that success. Speaker 2 (25:32) We did a different episode, I can't remember which one it was, we've released it, it was a while back, where I talked about figuring out what each person on your team needs, and then you can literally recruit individuals from your organization that want to give back, that want to mentor, and help them out. You said Bitcoin, my mind went to this, where we talked about how some of the kids don't even know that are graduating from high school, and even college, they've never written a check. They've never had to balance a checkbook. They don't understand just fundamentals of business. And then there's another thing that's happening too. This younger generation is seeing a path where they're like, I don't want to go to get this four year degree and go into debt. I want to go into the workforce. I want to educate myself so that I can become better. Well, Hopefully you're helping them and you're paying for a piece of that education. They're going to want to stay and be loyal. If you're not, they're going to be looking the other way. But you can literally, within your organizations, identify individuals who have strengths where the other ones don't and create an environment where they come together, they collaborate, and they share. And then those relationships, that's where loyalty lives. Speaker 3 (26:46) So the trust gap is real. Only 21 % of employees strongly trust their leaders. That's huge. And that also goes from middle management to C-suite. We've seen it, like, and we're going to be covering something like, if there's no trust, like you said, like stealing somebody's idea, like if they're seasoned, like we're seeing people age out because they're at the top of their market or their pay structure. And you as a business, like, you're cutting your nose off despite your face because they add value in different ways and if you don't see the way they add values dig. Find, ask questions and if it's an EOS, wrong seat, wrong bus, wrong seat, whatever, move them along in that sense or offer them training and see how they can do and evolve where they're weak. So, you know, for the elderly to mentor elderly, so sorry, the season, for the season, don't come for me. I'm elderly too. For the seasoned, you know, like you're training your replacement. You feel like I'm going to get this, you know, snot nose brat coming up and I'm training them to take my position because companies do it all the time. This isn't something that just happens. So that goes along with the trust gap in the, in the, you know, C-suites and the companies. So. If you want it to work like House Church, we just had Thanksgiving last night. We have the old, we have the middle, we have the young, we have so many kids coming out the year. They make sure that you take all the kids that you bring that you don't leave your kids behind. We have so many kids at House Church, but it's a mix up. You know, so like do team building activities. I remember doing ropes courses. I remember doing things and I know my friend, he works at an oil and gas company and he went. and they did a team building where they paired you up with different departments so you could even get to know different people in the departments. So if you have one that's weak in this area and deficient and you need them to find a mentor, you want to kind of pair people up, do a team building activity, go to a Dave and Busters or a main event and make it fun and get them to interact. And then it just helps build that camaraderie. Speaker 2 (28:50) Get feedback from them. gotta say this because y'all, you remember the old, okay, some of you may not remember this, but some of our friends remember this, the old team building activities. Let me hold you and see if you trust me. wants to that anymore. Whatever team building activity that you want to do, make sure it makes sense. Speaker 3 (29:02) backwards for anybody. Speaker 2 (29:09) It's not going make sense for everybody. You're never going to make everybody happy, but you don't want to force something on everyone. And we sometimes misuse the word fun in a way that takes away from what we're really trying to do. And if it's collaboration and it's bringing the groups together, sometimes it's literally mindful conversations and getting in and giving somebody the floor to speak. And then yes, absolutely. Especially our generation. We love the team building stuff. We love going to, you know, the Dave and Busters or the spa retreats or whatever. but it's hearing what's important to your team and then providing that environment a safe environment. That's so, so important. And trust is so important. Speaker 3 (29:49) It's hard when you have toxic people to put yourself in an environment where you're having to do trust things or Speaker 2 (29:56) And that's why you get rid of the toxic people. I can only say that so many times. Speaker 3 (29:59) here for multiple people toxic like don't say I want to take the safe road because you're killing your company you're killing your environment you're killing your vibe I cannot tell you how many times I had to work with toxic and I will never go back and work with toxic ever again Speaker 1 (30:12) Well, not to digress, but here we are. One of the trends today in the workforce is working remotely. I'll never forget, when I first got moved up into the manager position, we had a town hall meeting where I worked before. We had a town hall meeting and we were sitting there. And let's face it, when you start, Speaker 2 (30:23) Mm-hmm. Cute. Speaker 1 (30:39) And they required that we work from the office for six months with our manager and we learn and then we cut to work remotely, which worked great at the time for me. And then after a year or so, I got promoted to manager. Well, we had the big town hall meeting and suddenly I was manager over people, new people had come in. And I saw their picture when we were sitting there on teams meeting back and forth. And I had several people walk up to me and say, my gosh, it's so good to meet you. And I was like, huh, who was that? Those were my team members. And I didn't even know, and the reason why is because we all worked remotely. And you don't get the opportunity to really. get to know that person, get to know their strengths and their weaknesses and engage with them. And so, you know, I had the opportunity to say, let's have some team building and team building is huge. When you get to go on little retreats, a daily retreat, we're going to shut down the office and go on a daily retreat. We're going to get to know each other. We're to try these fun, different things and just kind of see other people's personalities outside of the workforce. Because it just, when you don't know your team. you just don't get to build on a lot of that. And that I think is one of the, you know, when COVID hit and everyone said, oh, everyone wants to work remotely. Well, then everyone liked working remotely. I kind of missed going into the office. I missed my team. And that's why since I left where I was, Speaker 3 (32:02) We have our parents at home with us. have our kids. Speaker 1 (32:04) Oh my lord, please let me go to the office. We're getting sandwiched. Speaker 2 (32:07) The younger generation though, I've got some stats in here. think it's 85 % of them want to work remotely or have the opportunity. When you say work remotely, most of them aren't wanting to work from home. They'll go other places. They want to be able to go like we are here today and they'll set up shop, they'll go to Starbucks, they'll go to their favorite pizzeria, they'll go wherever. They want different things that can keep their brain stimulated. Working from home isn't necessarily what remotely. Speaker 3 (32:30) It's like corporate, big corporate is making them come back. Speaker 2 (32:32) And that's a problem in some situations. Yeah. You know, and so it's like having some flexible work and understanding it. You know, I've worked for different individuals where they're like, how can you get work done without being in the office? And then one particular company that I worked for for a really long time, I was their first remote employee. And as I was building my team out for this company and the folks that I, the people that I hired, they were remote and we were immensely successful. but I was always there for my team members. If they had a problem, they could call me. We would brainstorm. I never came up with the solution on my own, and this is another good point. If you get challenged or you get problems brought to you and you are the solutions person, you're like, I got this. I'm so cool. I'm a great leader. No, you're not. You're not a great leader if you're always doing all of the solutions, because then your team starts going, well, what do I matter? What you need to do is you need to figure out, okay, what is the problem? talk with your team, have a conversation. allow them to collaborate, and then come back to you, talk it through, and then decide what's best for the company. But if you're that solutions person, you're not a great leader, and you might think you are, but you're not giving your teams the opportunities to showcase what they really have. And you might say, my other generation, they're like, well, this is what we do. We're supposed to follow the leader. Remember that? Follow the leader. The best leaders in the world are the ones that are going to be able to listen. They're going to create an environment of collaboration. And then they're going to say, okay, based on all of these things, we know what the company goal ultimately is. We've all weighed in on this. We've talked about the pros and the cons, and now we're going to move forward with this. This is the plan. This is the why, this is the how, and this is the what. Not necessarily in that order. So sometimes I get dyslexic of the tongue, but you're going to talk about why, what, and how. Everybody's weighed in on it. And I'm not saying it's always a jury and this is always what you're doing. But in those moments that you can do that, you will be a more effective leader. This doesn't have to all be on your shoulders. And I also want to talk to whoever's out there thinking in that imposter syndrome way. You are not weaker because you're asking your team for feedback. You are not weaker because you don't have all the answers. What you do is realize you are human. You are not chappy, cheapy T. You're not open AI. You're not grok. You're not all of these AIs and there's a thousand of them coming up a day. You are you. And you are limited by what you know. Yes, you can also rely on AI. So can your team. But you can't forget the human factor. You've got to be able to bring that together. That's going to help you create strong teams. That's going to help your turnover reduce. Your team members are going to want to stay. You're going to have loyalty. Loyalty to you. Not necessarily the company. And some people might not want to hear that. But if you're a great leader and you know what the company needs, and you're constantly listening and you've got the goal in mind, and part of that goal is your team. Lifting them up, building them, helping them succeed. It may sound silly, but it is such a recipe for success, and so many people are forgetting that. Speaker 1 (35:51) It's not true. Yeah, it's not silly at all. Speaker 3 (35:51) to the Speaker 1 (36:03) Yeah. Yeah, her husband delivered him. Speaker 3 (36:11) And I mean, it's the absolute insanity and the human empathy and the human component. No matter what's coming at us in life, God made us, God kissed us, God gave us life. And if you can't see the value that you bring, find it. Repeat to yourself, like, what are you doing? How are you doing? Ask your team, how could I be better? What do you like that I do? How am I adding value to you in your life? And now we'll all trickle down to the bottom line. So, you know, people and kids today, like, aren't taught to think, they're taught to scroll. Like they're not taught to stop and pause, follow direction. Like everything is so mindless. Like we go here, we go here, we go here. When we were out roaming the streets doing Lord knows what, we're not gonna repeat. know, when we were out roaming the streets in the day until the street lights came on, we didn't have people telling us what kind of shenanigans to get into. We didn't have like... Speaker 2 (37:02) We made them up. Speaker 3 (37:03) We did whatever we made the clubhouses. searched for bodies by the railroad tracks. If you don't know the movie, that's a good movie. Stand by me. Stand by me. not stand and deliver. That's another good movie. But, you know, it's like we had an imagination and we would go visit aliens at the Sandlot and just do like different things, whatever it came You know, but so so it's OK to think and have that solitude and silence like I have removed the device from my kid's life like. Speaker 1 (37:13) I think of me. creative. Speaker 3 (37:32) for like, I don't, I'm not technically app so y'all can laugh at me because I'm seasoned and I'm old. But putting him on an app where it times out after an hour, right? Because then he has his homework that's on the app. So we have to physically remove the tablet. But he's like, I don't know what to do. I'm bored. Go ride your bike. He can't ride a bike because he might fall and get hurt. So he rides a scooter. He rides a scooter down to the bayou. He rides it to his friend's house. But it's like, I was in the woods. I was hunting. was pillaging. I was searching. I was doing whatever. So they're not. Speaker 1 (38:02) Yep. Speaker 3 (38:03) They're not giving that free rein. If you let your kid go free, then all of a sudden the police are called on you because you're neglecting your kid. And then if you discipline your kid, the police are called on you because you're spanking your kid. But there is abuse. Definitely, I saw that video too. But flex off the space. So we're gonna talk about Gen Z and talking about... their influence, like there's a huge global office down in Texas has so many Fortune 500 companies. Trust me, if you need a leader, Mindy can come and talk to you guys. She can help build your funnel and help you guys with that. this person who's barely wet behind the ears came up with Flex Office Space and is taking... whole departments and making them flex office space. So they don't have a place to call home where they can actually put up a picture of their kids or do anything like that. They can't. bring anything of personal items because they never know if they're going to have a desk that has a working chair or anything. You know, they got to come in earlier and earlier to get that office space. People are even working down in the cafeteria because they don't have a desk and everything. But what is so funny about this? And, know, they're trying to get people to interact with the other departments and do this. So they're trying things which you got to appreciate the effort and you got to see how it watches out. They have the boss, boss, boss, who's over 250, 300 people. internationally, they're like, hey, where's so and so? We don't know. Like, hey, where's so and so? We don't know. Good luck. It's like an Easter egg hunt to find the boss boss and where he is so they can actually get a hold of him. Where's the conversation? And that's exactly what they're playing because somebody brought in this great idea to create flex place, flex space, but didn't think it all the way through. They didn't go to the teams and get conversation with the teams and logistically. What does that look like? Speaker 2 (39:45) And you can make a great plan that works in FlexSpace. Speaker 3 (39:49) Right and now they're playing where's Waldo with the the main guy of the company because they can't find him there this department so it's it's funny and it's not funny if there was more leadership and ownership of that spot like instead of hey we're just doing this because I mean yeah they can put together a puzzle in the flex space like and and talk with each other at the water cooler at the puzzle but they they can't find their boss so it's just Speaker 2 (40:12) Nobody's ever going to agree, right? But getting the feedback from your team members and what they would like to see in this example of FlexSpace and then looking back at that and then logistically, what can you do that makes sense? And there's so many different things you can do and we can continue on and like really dig into the generations. There's so many things, but what I would like to do before we wrap up is just give a few things that you can really. Speaker 3 (40:36) today feels like herding cats except the cats are on slack. Three of them are remote and one wants to be called Chief Feline Officer. How to slide it on in. Speaker 2 (40:45) She had to get a joke in there. Why do we slide jokes in, Natalie? Speaker 3 (40:52) Because we're funny? Speaker 1 (40:54) Because we can. Speaker 2 (40:56) or because we used to do it on our radio show. Speaker 3 (40:59) It would bring her jokes and she's forgot who she is. She's forgotten who she is and where she came from. So I have to remind her by sliding a joke in. Speaker 1 (41:12) You slacked on your joke of the day today, sorry. Speaker 2 (41:14) I slack, I slack, all right. So I wanna talk about just a few things that you can do really quickly. Speaker 3 (41:22) We got all the time in the world. They're enjoying this. Give us your comments in the section. Let us know. Speaker 2 (41:28) Send us your feedback. Let us know about an episode. listen, seriously. Speaking about being uncomfortable. It is okay to make your team feel uncomfortable, but you're doing it in a way that's going to help them. Speaker 1 (41:43) Come. Speaker 2 (41:43) And so I would say clarity over comfort. And what I mean by that is I want you to make sure when you are talking to your team members that you are focused on clear expectations. Everybody wants to truly understand what are your expectations, clear priorities, and then clear roles. If you're able to do that, your teams are going to feel so much more comfortable. It may make you feel uncomfortable having to sit down and go. These are the things we're doing. Now some of you that are listening right now might go, of course I'm always clear with my expectations. My team completely always understands. But are they coming to you two, three, and four times and asking you for clarity? If you're having to repeat yourself, I want you to think about that. Because what you think you're saying isn't always what is happening. And there's a thing called the influence gap. You intend something, but it doesn't actually happen. You intend to empower your teams, and instead you're micromanaging your teams. We don't need that either. But clarity over comfort is going to help you every single day. Speaker 1 (42:43) Perception versus interpretation is huge also. Speaker 2 (42:46) thousand percent. Speaker 3 (42:47) 69 % of employees, according to the Gallup poll, say that communication is lacking for their organization. Just to give you a stat. Speaker 2 (42:53) Yeah, it is an incredible stat and I believe it and I see it. I see it in the organizations that I'm working with. I'll work with leaders and they say, I'm very clear, I understand this, they know what I'm saying and then I continue to ask the question, of course, why? Why are we still having these issues? Why are we continuing to discuss this? At some point in time, you've really got to think about how are... you actually communicating? Are you preaching and not listening and not seeing where there's actually question marks? So that will help you. And then this leads into coaching over criticizing. And I said this earlier in a different way. What do you need to do? What do you need to do your best work? How can I support you? Y'all, that seems so basic and fundamental. But imagine if your boss came to you and said, what can I help you with so you can do your best work? And they mean it. And you're quiet. Silence. Silence is key after you put something out for your teams to think about. Silence is uncomfortable sometimes, but when you can perfect silence, thank you Joseph Batdorf, one of my other amazing, incredible bosses and mentors, for teaching me that. was one of the most uncomfortable lessons that I learned. And I also want to say leadership can be taught. There's a great book that I'd love for you to read. It's called The Motive by Patrick Lincione. And it starts out with a fable and then it has some business practices in the end. And he talks about how everybody's brought up to become a leader. That's your ultimate goal. And he says some people aren't meant to be leaders. They're not. And then some people truly want to be leaders. And this is me saying it. I do believe if you're willing to be coached, you absolutely can become an incredible leader. But you also have to swallow some humble pie and you have to understand that you don't know it all. And I'll tell you this right now. I don't know it all. I'm still learning. I know, it's on, on. Alright, so coaching over criticizing. Yeah. Think about that. Speaker 1 (44:48) I'm dead. Speaker 3 (44:55) And then let the people come back to you because so many times when people come at me with a question or something, I'm not a quick reactory like some. Like I'm not done. I'm seasoning, I'm marinating, I'm thinking, but I will come back to you and I'll have more questions for clarification and logistically thinking of implementation and how I'm going to execute and what that looks like. So I'm not going to have the answers all the way. Speaker 2 (45:01) How do I not with you? Speaker 1 (45:20) Your might not always be your best one. Speaker 3 (45:22) Be prepared for somebody to come back to you is the point. Speaker 1 (45:25) And you think about that also when you're a leader and if your leader does come to you and says, how can I help? You have to step back and think the fact that in some situations, you don't know how many people were fighting for your position. And so that leader, that company has a lot of time invested in you. maybe a very high salary and benefits and expectations. And so what good leader wouldn't say, okay, I have an expectation of you. I need to make sure that you achieve that expectation. So how can I help? Yeah, yeah, because I hired you tell me what do you need a new computer? Do you need this? Do need a Porsche? Okay, maybe so but no, but please yeah Speaker 3 (46:05) I get a Porsche? That's right. Speaker 2 (46:08) We're not there yet. Speaker 1 (46:12) But no, mean that is huge. When you have certain people in certain positions, you rely on them to meet your goals and your company's expectations. And if you are lacking in what tools you provide in the toolbox, then guess what? you're not going to have someone that's going to meet those goals and expectations. So you have to be sincere when you say, how can I help? It's not a rhetorical question. How can I help? You know, and then you turn a blind ear. No, it's true. How can I help? Because at the end of the day, the success of the entire company relies on, you you really meaning what you say. Speaker 2 (46:49) So that leads absolutely leads into this next point of empathy and accountability. These are not opposites. They're the recipe. So we talked about it a few times. Empathy is not soft. It's not weak. And it's something you absolutely have to have, especially with the younger generations in the workforce. It's not saying you agree with them. But again, you're listening to understand. And then you come back with after that understanding of their point of view. You still have a goal that you have to get to. And then explaining how they are accountable for these goals and where you need to go after you've shown the empathy, you still want to give direction. Because I'll tell you this too, leaders, and I've been in this position myself, I had to learn the hard way. If you only lead with empathy, you're going to fail. You have to also be decisive and you have to expect accountability. So, next one, I love this, I do, because I hear this all the time, what do we do with Gen Z? They want a promotion right away, they want this right away, they want that, no, what they want. And a number of them, do have financial stability, if you go to that Deloitte survey that I was referencing, and I'll give you some resources here in a minute. Speaker 3 (47:56) Bigger salary. Speaker 2 (48:08) Money is not their only driver by any means. They truly want to learn more. so it has here, so frequent feedback, micro versus the macro moments. Quick five minute check-ins. Some companies only do an annual review. That doesn't work for almost any generation, actually. I think about my husband, he's going through an annual review, but he's constantly asking his boss for feedback, and what can I do more, and help me understand this. And he's older than I am, and he wants that feedback. I think a number of people want that, but I know... Speaker 3 (48:40) I if you're doing poorly or how you can improve. Speaker 2 (48:43) Yes Speaker 1 (48:45) If you're not doing something up to par, don't spring it on me in my annual review. Yes. When eight months ago I could have been working on it and made a difference in the company. Speaker 3 (48:54) I have a couple of co- Speaker 2 (48:55) clients that are literally so upset right now and I'm like with their team members and leaving. It's like, but are you giving them more than just their annual review or their quarterly review? Are you actually sitting down and having conversations and giving them guidance on how you can actually help them? And if your answer is I'm too busy, then we also need to talk about time management because you're really not if you manage your schedule wisely. Speaker 1 (49:19) Yeah. Speaker 2 (49:21) Okay, and then you all are going to love this one. If you haven't read old Mel Robbins book, we love her. When I'm super stressed, I just listen to Let Them because sometimes I've got a hundred different things that are going with coaching and speaking and consulting and then sugar, spice and spirits and then my son's app that he has and all the things that we're doing. I literally am just like, I just need to listen to Mel for a minute. Speaker 3 (49:41) What's that? Speaker 2 (49:47) And it is wonderful. But if you think about the principles, you know, you think about let them try, let them fail safely. That's key. Let them fail safely. Let them own the pieces. Talk about feeling valued when they can own their pieces of that puzzle. Your work is a puzzle. We're constantly trying to make sure everything fits and then let them surprise you. And how you react is so incredibly important. Natalie, you look like you have something you want to do. Speaker 3 (50:16) Do I have my thinking face? Love and logic. So my kids grew up with love and logic, like how I parented. And that was let the natural consequences of their actions happen. However, when I implemented Love and Logic, schools stopped failing kids. And so like I was waiting for my kid to fail. I'm like, what do mean you got to retake your test? That's absurd. You should fail. And I think it's important that people have failures. And it's kind of like the Mel Robbins left them. Love and Logic's a great series and parenting book, like with natural consequences. However, our schools don't back parents in that situation. So how else can you implement love and logic? Hopefully they revamped the book. I haven't checked. But it's just time tried and true. If you act like a jerk out in public, you're going to have grandpa say something to you. And different personalities are going to speak up and say something. And that's OK. Speaker 1 (51:14) When you talk about the, you know, should fail, one of the biggest things in competition is, you got a participation trophy. Speaker 2 (51:23) I'm grading your paper in purple because red is too harsh. Speaker 1 (51:27) I was like, okay. Speaker 3 (51:28) And these, wait a minute, these are the people that are coming to work on our team. So how do we communicate effectively with them? Speaker 2 (51:35) Yes, 1000%. These are things that we have to think about. We can't change that. It's not their fault. They did not make this decision, right? It was brought to them and the kids were raised this way. we have to think about now they're getting into the workforce. We can't blame them and be frustrated. Like I was like, red pen and purple and all that. No, it's like, you can't change how they grew up. They can't change it. And because the majority of this generation that's going in has dealt with things we didn't, we have to understand that. And it's on us if we get frustrated. with ourselves for not understanding, so then do the homework to understand you will be a better leader that way. And as I'm wrapping this up, the last thing I want to remind you, bridging the gap. So I talked about Gen Z, mentoring tech, Boomers, mentoring wisdom and creativity, Gen X, independence, well, mentors really wisdom. I don't want to fully say creativity, but they do have some creative ideas. Speaker 3 (52:33) even grit like work ethic. Speaker 2 (52:35) Absolutely. Huge. And then millennials, that collaboration and that creativity. And so everyone gains, they're working together and they each feel responsible for helping the other person and they feel valued. And at first you may stumble, it may be frustrating for everybody. And then all of sudden you see your teams working together. You see relationships and friendships spanned across generations. And when you can have that, that is absolutely incredible. And then for some of you that are thinking about, so what are some resources that I can use because I do want to, whether I'm a season leader or I'm a brand new leader, I've got a few for you. So some books and podcasts. I mentioned The Motive by Patron Lincone. I really love this book. It's a super easy read. You can download it. You can listen to it. It's less than three hours. Dare to Lead, Brene Brown, The Coaching Habit, Michael Bungay Stanyer. Multipliers is by Liz Wiseman. Start with Y, Simon Sinek. Think again, Adam Grant. you know, so for Emerging G Insights, you have that study that I referenced earlier, the Deloitte Gen Z and Millennial Workplace Survey. You also have the GALIC State of the Workplace and then the SHRM State of the Workplace. There's a lot of amazing resources that are out there. but you have to put the time in. You have to think about this. And if you've been leading for a really long time and you're frustrated, it's like, how do I engage the younger generation? And then how do I make my team members that have been with me for a long time also feel valuable and seen? It really is not about... leading day to day by oversight, you've really got to get in there and understand what's happening. Again, it's not micromanagement. We grew up in a generation where it's like, do not micromanage me, I got this. The problem is we learn, okay, then let my teams, let's hire the best people, the most expensive people, and that's not always the best thing to do these days. And so it's... learning what your team needs and adjusting. And it is okay that you don't know everything. It is okay to put yourself in a position where you are learning and asking for help. The best leaders will do that. Speaker 1 (54:42) You have to evolve. And just like Mindy said, if you are put into a leadership position, and it may not necessarily be where you wanted to be, you were just the only one available, you can be taught to be a leader. It may not be your favorite thing, and someone may come along and you say, look, I want to go back to what I was doing, you take this over, but you can have the resources to still be a leader to those that are coming up underneath you. And again, like I said, only speaking from my experience to me, The takeaway of all of this is to be a great leader, but to make a harmonious workplace, the workplace morale. When people are happy to go to work, you're gonna get good results. When they're happy to see you, when they're happy to work for you, they'll stay. They feel valued. When they feel like they're contributing and you're recognizing it, even if it's like, that was a great idea. I appreciate your time, thank you so much. Speaker 3 (55:26) with you. Speaker 1 (55:39) That speaks volumes. Speaker 2 (55:41) and you may be in a really stressful environment, so you're just trying to pull one or two things that you can celebrate. Sometimes it's just celebrating the small things, and then all of a sudden the small things, you see more of them, and more of them, and more of them, and then they start to add up. And then 30 days from now, 90 days from now, six months from now, you've turned around a culture that people didn't really want to be a part of. They were thinking they were part of that group that said they're leaving in two years, and now they are wanting to be. part of the goal, part of the mission, part of the team and they want to follow you because you're an incredible leader and you recognize them. And so I just challenge you, if you're struggling a little bit, look in the mirror, think about the things that you can do differently and how you can coach and mentor versus just overseeing the day to day of your company. Speaker 1 (56:28) Absolutely. Speaker 3 (56:28) And I know Mindy's not going to tell you this, but if you do need coaching, if you need anything along the lines of professional speaking, Mindy is your gal. She is somebody that I did not, I knew of from the industry, from us having dueling radio shows, not at the same time, but different time blocks and being in the business and industry for a long time with each other. She is a leader and she knows how to motivate people and get people thinking. And she's kind of a hard ass, but with a professional twist. And she's always very upbeat and concerned about you as a person. Sometimes I'm like, how in the world did you even, my brain's like, hey, did you get this done? And she's like, hey, how are you doing today? And I'm like, you are killing me woman. but she is the ultimate professional. If you guys are looking for somebody to have come speak, educate, coach, anything along those lines, she is your gal. So look no further. Mindy Price it inside the why. I had to your company a name. why? Speaker 1 (57:32) inside the Speaker 2 (57:34) Inside the Why well thank you for that. if you do need help, if you just reach out to me, mindy@insidethewhy.com I'd love to hear from you. And Sugar Spice and Spirits would absolutely love to hear from you. If you have a show topic, if you have a sip of the day, just reach out to us at SugarSpiceAndSpirits.com. You can follow us on all the socials. You're watching a podcast or listening right now, so apparently you found your favorite platform. But if you would share the word, we would love for you to do that and we'd love to hear from you. All of our drinks are empty, but we're still gonna say, cheers to you. Thanks to Bing. Speaker 3 (58:09) And thanks to Bling. Speaker 1 (58:11) Bing. Bing. Bing. Bing. Bing. Bing. Bing. Bing. Bing. Bing. Speaker 3 (58:14) pizza and brew.