The Hidden Cost of Being Strong

SSS Podcast (00:00) everybody, it's Natalie Pilkington coming at you with Sugar Spice and Spirits podcast. have my girl. Mindy (00:06) Mindy Price. Kelly Williams (00:07) Kelly Williams. SSS Podcast (00:09) and we are excited to be here today. Remember if you have not subscribed, if you don't like or comment, please do because we really need your support. We're working to grow the channel, we're working really hard and we appreciate you and we thank you for being here. But don't forget to like and subscribe because all this hard work would be for Neil if we can't get this thing going, which we are, so we do appreciate you. Let's go ahead and start out with our sip of the day as we always do ladies. have a nice little orange juice cocktail that has some ginger ale and some sparkling water and my favorite tequila. So this is my sip of the day. We're each at our own perspective area. So Mindy, what are you drinking? Mindy (00:51) So I have a Carmel S'mores coffee and I thought how perfectly would that pair with the Salted caramel flavored whiskey that I got if you all watch the episode when we filmed in Pigeon Forge over time management So this is all the way from Tennessee. It's been several months and this is all that I have left But I will say I'm pretty proud of myself because we also drink on it there But I'm like now I'm wanting to savor every little drop because it's so good. And so This is a fantastic coffee Kelly Williams (01:23) That sounds really, really good. Sounds really, good. So I am having an unleaded mocktail. It was something I just kind of threw together, my husband threw together for me. It is a ruby red grapefruit and a little bit of ginger ale, so nothing in it. Can't drink right now, which is something we'll get into here in just a little bit. I just recently came out of my fourth neck surgery, so I'm still on some medication. SSS Podcast (01:25) Kelly, what are you drinking today? Kelly Williams (01:50) and everything, so probably not a good idea to mix a little bit of alcohol with the muscle relaxers and pain pills, actually no more pain pills, thank goodness, but muscle relaxers and some kind of nerve blocking pain. We'll get into that a little bit as to why I'm on that, but yeah, decided not to mix the meds and the alcohol today, so we're going fully unleaded this morning and it's okay. I did the ginger ale just to have some sparkle. I probably could have stuck with just the grapefruit juice, but it's okay. It's good. So I'm enjoying it. So. Mindy (02:27) Cheers, ladies. SSS Podcast (02:28) Cheers, ladies. Kelly Williams (02:29) Cheers to you too, also. SSS Podcast (02:34) That's really good. So invisible, invisible recovery when you look fine, but you're not. This isn't a medical episode. This is a human episode. So there's this myth of bouncing back and I don't know where this, this bouncing back myth came from. If it's just people wanting to be positive, but I think there's something to it, especially if you have a long road or a long recovery ahead of you. It's not just like the flu or something minor that you're getting. Kelly Williams (02:35) Yeah. SSS Podcast (03:02) major surgery or after a traumatic event, car accident, things like that. Where do you think that term bounce back came from or what are your thoughts on that? Mindy (03:12) Well, had you given me a clue, I would have looked it up. But since I didn't know you were gonna ask. Kelly Williams (03:14) Yes. I was coming way off the springboard. yeah, I'm interested to know how or where it came from, if you did. Mindy (03:25) Yeah, I think in society we're just always going so fast and this term has I mean I've heard it forever. you'll bounce back. you got this. And so I don't know if it was some form of someone thinking they're helping motivate and it took off and you know, some people do bounce backs like wow, you really bounce back from that. But the thing that about that Natalie is the invisible part of it. Somebody may look fine on the outside, but on the inside they're not. And I think oftentimes that gets taken for granted. And for so long, we weren't really allowed to talk about mental health and how it was impacting us. Now for the younger generation where they have been able to see how bad that impacted their parents and grandparents not being able to talk about it. And it being something that is much more the workplace is open to the discussions around it. I think because we couldn't talk about that, the expectation was there that you've got to recover quickly. You don't have a lot of time off that's paid time off if you don't have a short term or a long term disability type of insurance plan or company back plan. Like you've got to bounce back. Like it's like suck it up buttercup. And you know, especially Gen X suck it up, buttercup, get out there, go do it. So I don't really, I don't know where it came from, but those are just the ideas that are, that are circling in my head right now. SSS Podcast (04:50) Well, I did look it up. I wasn't expecting to, but I just looked it up. But 1900s, English speakers started using it figuratively. And it is a business speech. It's a business that recovered after a loss. Like athletes returning after an injury. People were bounding after illness or grief. So the ball bounced back off the wall. And it's kind of stuck since then. You didn't just survive. You retained your shape. So that's kind of where it comes from. But I think that there's something to be said about the, they look OK. you know, they're on the outside, Kelly looks fine, but in the inside, she's really struggling. And you losing your independence, you losing like things that you could do and you expect to come out and be able to do things right away. And you're not able to do that. it hits, you know, people who are caregivers, who are used to taking care of people, knowing the Rico- record, knowing how to recover, knowing the process, the physical therapy, everything you got to do. You know, we see this with parents, like they're the ones that are used to making the decisions and when those roles start reversing, entrepreneurs, high performers. it's Kelly, you kind of got all of it all in one. So Kelly had, this was her fourth neck surgery. She went through three fine and she's having a longer road of recovery. And Some of the things that you're experiencing, Kelly, with this one, what are you experiencing and what have you, because I know you kind of wanted to share because you're just at a kind of a frustrating background. You're a doctor. You've got physical education background. You've been with the spinal injury, the tear. Like, you know your stuff when it comes to this. So you know the process. Kelly Williams (06:22) you Right, right. When I started my career as a physical therapist, I started it with doing spinal cord injury rehab, and I actually wrote a few of the protocols for the standard operating procedure for rehab. having had three neck surgeries before that, basically I had three herniated discs in my neck, and about 21 years ago, over the course of about six years, I had three disc removals, and I would wake up, had my neck brace on, felt. perfectly fine and would just continue my routine. And, you know, within the limitations of the neck brace, but I had all my feeling, all my function, everything. So I just expected the same outcome this time. About three, four years ago, I started having some swallowing difficulties. And so I went back to the doctor and he said, wow, you've got a really bad bone spur up high, way up at this level. And we think it might be interfering with your swallowing. So I had a bunch of tests run and the doctor told me this time going in, he said, we, and your other, another disc is collapsed. So we've got to take that. We've got to remove that disc, put a new disc in there and stabilize it. And things have changed so much in 20 years. I don't have to wear a neck brace, which is a God's blessing. But the one thing he didn't tell me, he had another doctor in there. that was to look and see what was going on with the swallowing. Come to find out some of the hardware from one of the previous surgeries is what was actually touching my throat and making it difficult to swallow. So when they went in there and had to remove 21 years worth of scar tissue and taking screws and plates out of bone, they had to move things around a lot and they ended up really traumatizing my spinal cord. So when, although that was a potential to happen, it was not something that we really discussed that much because we weren't really sure that was gonna happen once they got in there, but that is what happened. So when I woke up out of anesthesia and couldn't feel my hands and couldn't move my hands, I immediately knew what happened, what's wrong. And so they kept me overnight and at this point now, I am my hands I feel like I have gloves tight around both hands and I feel like I have stockings on up past my knees and they're all very very tight and everything tingles and I don't have any feeling I have I have tingling but if I were to close my eyes and you touch my hand I can't feel you touching my hands my hands are numb but they're tingling from the inside and there's no coordination so I have inadvertently accidentally picked my nose, poked my eye, stuck stuff in my ear, dropped stuff, cannot get stuff out of the microwave. Personal hygiene, my first gift for my husband was a bidet. So it's like, know, guess what? I'm gonna get you a bidet. I'm like, guess what? Thank you very much. So little things, I did put my makeup on myself this morning, but it's done with, you know, in patterns of like, word it and then it's like so yeah it's just a lot of uncoordinated movement being a caregiver or a care overseer per se for two parents who I'm responsible for helping take them to doctor appointments I can't drive obviously because if I drive I'm liable to end up on the other side of the road because of my hands so it's it's been a challenge there's been lots of tears lots of anger and I have contacted my doctor several times. The nice thing is is that because I am getting, I do have movement and I do have TMI maybe, good bowel and bladder control. It is a good sign that a lot of this over the course of weeks, months will pass and I will hopefully get back to as close to my baseline as possible. It's a really good sign. But just right now the spinal cord just heals very, very slowly. You can look and see where they went in. So it's just going to be a long haul. And it was just something I did not expect to wake up to. But you know, hey, I got this, I got my faith, I'm alive, I can still do things. It's just slower, more deliberate, not very coordinated, kind of ugly, the way I do things. But you know, hey, I'm surrounded by God and friends and family and my faith and... And it's not the outcome I wanted, but I'm going to at some point at per Mindy's recommendation. I think I'm probably going to record my journey for those who in the medical field suddenly wake up on the other side of the coin and to maybe hopefully bring hope to those who are maybe waking up dealing with this. in my journey. I've already had to order a lot of adaptive equipment, things to help me with buttons and brush my teeth and write and everything. So I'm just going to try to log all of that in hopes that I can help someone along the line. But I get fatigued really quickly. So if you all see me kind of breathe really deep, my hands start to feel real fat and get even less mobile after about 20 minutes. So if I just kind of sit back and don't do much, I'm not ignoring you guys, I'm just trying to soak it all in. Mindy (12:14) Kelly, one of the things for people who are just listening and they're not watching, I can see, because we're not all together, we're recording from our respective homes, and you talk with your hands a lot. Kelly Williams (12:26) Yes, a lot. Mindy (12:28) For those of you that have been watching, she's very quick with her hands and her movement. for those of you that are just listening, you can see that her left hand is extremely swollen. And even when she was trying to touch her face a while ago, the fingers don't move as well, and it's a lot slower. And so somebody may be listening, and if they didn't know you or watching, and they are seeing us for the first time, like you using your hand, she has full movement of her hand. I could tell just from that movement, just wiped her nose just a little bit. I could see your fingers not moving in that way and how they kind of dragged just a little bit. And so that's one of the hard things is somebody not knowing you and your norm, what they call, again, I'm not in the medical field either, but because of everything I dealt with with my mom, understanding that baseline. And I know your baseline and how different that is. how difficult this is and you're putting on a brave face right now but I think our listeners can relate whether it's because of a neck surgery or just really any life-changing thing that happens and the outcome isn't what you want and having to adjust. I learned about the term from you adaptive equipment just the other day because you're like I ordered this adaptive equipment and that's actually when I was like Kelly you really should go on social and record your journey because I mean y'all people are following people are following everybody on TikTok you know for their facelifts why not there's other people who are going through injuries too and I think because what you're going through that has to do with mobility is very scary the thing that you said to us is my SSS Podcast (13:58) People don't know about that. They don't even know it's available. Kelly Williams (14:03) Right. Right. All right. Mindy (14:17) worst nightmare is waking up and not having all my faculties, not being able to use my hands, not being able to walk. Well, thank goodness you have partial feeling back, but you are limited. And so documenting your journey because I truly fully believe you are going to have a recovery. We just don't know how long. You know, I had hoped after your surgery you would already be better and some days are worse and some days are better and the last couple you've said have actually been a little worse which is scary but sometimes you get worse before you get better. Kelly Williams (14:48) That's true. Go ahead. SSS Podcast (14:48) First off, can we say something? You had your fourth major neck surgery and came home the next day. That in itself, the miracle of medical advancement is huge. You can't imagine how going through this, that you'd be home the next day, even in that process, that you weren't drugged up, left to heal in a bed for a couple days before they even send you home. Kelly Williams (15:14) Right. Well, yeah, Mindy (15:17) Cheers to that. SSS Podcast (15:18) Yes. Kelly Williams (15:18) that you used to, if you were catastrophically injured, my uncle had a spinal cord injury years ago. I was a baby and he was in the, he was in the bed where they would lock him in the bed and then they would flip him over to keep from having bed sores. And that's what it was. It was a striker bed. And that's what people used to think it was. Now, when I was teaching rehab, I was teaching people how to go down the stairs in their wheelchair. And I mean, it was incredible how dynamic people were. But I will tell you, if at this point, waking up and not having the full use of everything, I didn't finish all my Christmas shopping because I told my daughter, I said, hey, I'll go in Friday. I'll be home Friday afternoon, maybe Saturday morning. I'll put my neck brace on we'll go to the store. We'll finish our shopping. We'll do our cooking and Guess who got the brunt of everything my daughter had to end up doing Everything she finished the shopping she did that we still had Chris. They were gonna cancel Christmas I said the frick you are you're not canceling Christmas. You're Yeah, you're all coming to my house. And so my daughter did you know, she organized everything I mean everything but now she gets to help come clean it up but so I thought our next year has we're gonna need your house, but SSS Podcast (16:21) Yay, Team Macy. Kelly Williams (16:34) It's one of those things where, you know, I have a new husband and this is my biggest thing was this is not what I wanted him to sign up for. This is not what I, if I thought for one, I was having no pain. So if I thought for one second, I could have put this surgery off for a while to not have it impact me like this. I would have, you know, I did it because I want to meet my deductible for the year. If had I known this was going to be the outcome. I would have put it off as long as I could because I was having pain but I wasn't having any major deficits but I knew it was just gonna get worse. So I thought, eh, let's just go ahead and get it done because the way the other three went, this would be a walk in the park. Not so much. you know, I have to use a walker right now because I don't have any feeling in my feet. So I kinda tumble over my feet a little bit. But I'm getting away from that because that's becoming more cumbersome than anything and plus makes me feel like an old lady. But again, it's an adaptive piece of equipment that is necessary. But you know, my daughter is actually, hmm? Mindy (17:42) Talk about that Kelly, the adaptive equipment because somebody could be listening and maybe they have a parent, a cousin, sister, brother, spouse, whatever that is going through something where their mobility could be impaired. So again, you're not giving medical advice. You're speaking from your perspective of what you're doing, but we're constantly learning from you. You had mentioned not being able to button your clothes and different things. And so you ordered some stuff. Do you mind sharing? some of the equipment that could be helpful. Kelly Williams (18:13) Yeah, So there are certain pieces of equipment out there that, like for instance, if you've seen anyone who's got some weakness in their hands, they'll put like the ball on their steering wheel and they can steer this way. Spinal cord injured patients who don't have use of their hands and feet. will have hand controls, or don't have use of their legs, I'm sorry, have hand controls that they can control the brake and the gas with just the hand, and they can still steer. So they can be independent in the community. But as far as like adaptive equipment, things like, I can't write right now because I can't hold on to a pen very well. because my fingers are spastic is what it is. There's no coordination. So when I try to hold on to something, my fingers just go all over the place. So if I want to write, I have to write like this. But I ordered some silicone wraps that go on the pins that make them fatter to where hopefully I can hold onto it better. And to see me eat, it's not a very cute first date, I promise you, because I'm like, So here is the little black button thing, if you can see it. Okay. Yeah, put it on me and see if I can give it. It doesn't matter. So what you basically do, and I'm gonna try to demonstrate it here in a minute. See, if you see it's nice and fat, so I can hold onto it a little bit better and I can manipulate it a little better. SSS Podcast (19:55) So she can loop the, she's got kind of like a prod that she can loop on the button and pull it through the shirt. So, yeah, there's so many tools out there, Mindy, that you don't really know that you, that are out there like adaptive wise. Kelly Williams (20:02) Just put it on. You can even get some of these things, there she is, you can even get some of these things at Walmart. If you've gone to Walmart and you see, like the grabber, when you see the thing that people use to pick stuff up off the ground because they can't bend over or whatever, that essentially is a piece of adaptive equipment. So adaptive equipment is basically anytime you have trouble doing things the quote unquote normal way, the equipment helps you adapt. Okay, fix me in the back. SSS Podcast (20:27) Mm-hmm. Kelly Williams (20:38) The equipment helps you adapt to your new, the new way of doing things. So let's see if I can do this. I haven't even used this yet. And of course it's on the left hand. So, so essentially what, what you do is you'll take this and let me get my other hand to work. You take this and you put it through the button hole like that. And then you take the button and you put it around the button like this. And then you just pull it through and then you've buttoned your shirt. Mindy (21:04) Yeah! Kelly Williams (21:09) and then you go down. And so you just go through and you just feed it through the buttonhole and feed it around the button and then pull it through. My biggest challenge at this point is I love to wear leggings, yoga pants, and I can't because I don't have any grip. And so I have to wear very loose fitting clothing right now because I can't pull my pants up. Mindy (21:09) It would have taken me a long time to figure that out by the way. Kelly Williams (21:38) But. Mindy (21:39) Kelly, I'm having this vision of, I can't believe I'm telling you all this. years ago, can remember, y'all remember the jeans, Rocky Mountains? Do you remember Rocky Mountain jeans? Gosh, they made your butt look good. Anyway. Kelly Williams (21:44) Yeah SSS Podcast (21:52) Yes. Yes. Kelly Williams (21:54) that go up to you. I made your butt look good and they went almost all the way up under your boobs. Mindy (22:01) I can remember trying to squeeze in to my Rocky Mountains and they were so tight I took a coat hanger like a closet hanger a hanger and I wrapped it and I unhooked it so I could get to the end of it you know the hook part and I would stick it in the zipper thing and I would just sit there and I would lay down and suck in as much as I could zip them up Kelly Williams (22:24) Yep. Mindy (22:25) And because Kelly Williams (22:25) Yep. SSS Podcast (22:25) the original Mindy (22:25) they SSS Podcast (22:26) sphinx. Mindy (22:26) did go up so high, you didn't have that muffin top or anything. you look good in those jeans. Kelly Williams (22:30) Alright. SSS Podcast (22:32) Bring back Rocky Mountains, bring back Rocky Mountains. Kelly Williams (22:35) Yes, So adaptive equipment, it's the blessing with the internet these days is you can get on Google and you can say adaptive equipment for decreased hand use. Bathroom equipment to help me, you know, like my hip replacement patients that I used to treat also, they can't lean over a certain amount because they'll dislocate their hip. Well, how do they wash between their toes? So there's a long sponge, a long handled sponge that they can use. How do I get my socks on? There's a sock donner. How do you put shirts on, pants on, clothes on? there's, for someone unfortunately who doesn't have the opportunity to go through a rehab with a therapist who has knowledge of all this type of equipment, the internet is filled with information on adaptive equipment. and how things to help you stir, things to help you write, help you get your clothes on, help you shower. My big thing is I can get down on the tub, but I have a hard time getting out because I can't put any weight through my hands. So there, I have a strong husband, thank goodness, but I have a shower chair. So now I just have a shower, but we switch to a handheld shower. Now the problem with the handheld shower is right now while my nerves, they're really angry. So this hand burns a lot. if you just barely touch it, it burns when you touch it. So I can't put anything on it. But so for the other hand, I have a handheld shower and I just, you know, wash, you he had to wash my hair because when I try to wash my hair, my hand, my fingers curl up, but there are things to help you wash your hair. There are things to help you wash your back, to help you dry. So it really just depends on what... what deficits you're experiencing as to what type of equipment you need. There's a thing that I can sit across the tub that I can sit down and push a button and it will lower me down. I can take my bath and then I can push a button and it will lift me up and I can turn around and get up and going on about my business. it's just, there are things that you can spend from $2 to 20, 30, $40,000. know, power wheelchairs, tracking systems across the across the ceiling if you can't walk, if your caregiver has to take, if your loved one has to take care of you and can't move you from the living room to the bedroom. I've seen full tracking systems where they sit you up in a sling, push a button and you go from room to room, kind of like a little monorail from the ceiling. So it's, to be able to stay at home if that is the best care or the best environment for you, there's tons of ways, unfortunately. Not all of the adaptive equipment is covered by all insurance and Medicare. And it can get quite, unfortunately, quite expensive. Mindy (25:36) Kelly, before we talk about cost, I know we won't really go into cost, one of the things that I want to say is because we have just a vast audience and we've got this younger generation, they like us, I think they think they're watching their moms. But they could have parents or even themselves that they're dealing with this and some of the parents may be a little, gosh, stubborn. I can do this. I can do this on my own. And so I just wanted to say that if you are a caregiver or you are a child or a child, you could be 20, 30, 40 years old taking care of or taking care of your grandparents and you've got that person that's stubborn and SSS Podcast (26:12) grandparents. Mindy (26:19) There's so it's like go ahead and ask for the help. Look at these things. There are you can go on Tick Tock. You can go on social, you know different social medias and then search for whatever it is that you're going through and maybe you can't afford the very expensive equipment. There's other things you can do that you could modify to see what other people are doing. And then if you are if you personally are that person that stubborn or you have a family member or loved one or somebody that you care for that stubborn, you gotta be careful with that because. Kelly Williams (26:27) way. Mindy (26:48) that also could put that person into a tailspin by trying to be strong and then it could have a really negative impact on their psyche and their mental just awareness capacity all of those things and so I love the fact that you've given so many ideas on this adaptive equipment and what you can do because a lot of people are going through this whether they've you know had something personal happen to them a car accident a surgery or whatever so I think it's great. Kelly Williams (27:17) Well, and it may not be that you need it for yourself. A lot of us know someone who's SSS Podcast (27:17) It's not, it's not. Mindy (27:22) It's not great, by the way, that they're going through it. It's great that you've given information. I wanted to clarify. Kelly Williams (27:25) No. Yes, yes. And it very well could be that just it may not be that you or your family is going through it, but you may have a friend whose grandparent is going through it. Like, my gosh, guess what I heard? You can go look over here, you know, and there are a lot of people who once I'm done with all this equipment, I will probably take it and either donate it someplace or I will, you know, say, hey, on Marketplace or, you know, or on, you know, free to whoever. I have this equipment, I don't need it anymore, is there anyone out there that needs it? To help someone who for whatever reason is under financial duress and they can't cover it through their insurance, whatever. My plan is to get better and not need it anymore. But it's available out there and a lot of times I love to work out and right now I can't work out. But being where I was before working at Tier, I know how to have someone sew the mitts for me to where if I want to hold something in my hand, I can Velcro it so I won't drop it on my face. I have dropped my phone on my face so many times. I have picked my cup up and whacked myself in the head with it. there's just, there's all sorts of, there's so many resources out there. And sometimes it's just knowing where to look. Sometimes it's the medical supply companies that you can call. and they'll give you the information. But your best resource is just the internet. I mean, it really is just the internet. And just type in exactly what you need, give it some keywords, and it will pull up just a huge amount of different type of equipment and different options for you. So I encourage you. And certainly anyone can reach out to me. I'll be more than happy to help out. I'm just, like I said, limited right now, but... I'm gonna get there. I'm gonna be back on track at some point. yeah. I'll bounce back. SSS Podcast (29:26) Yeah, you'll bounce back. Let's go. Mindy (29:28) Speaking of bouncing back. SSS Podcast (29:32) It's not the pain that gets you. It's the dependency. So I think this resonates with business owners, moms. Like when a mom is sick, the to-do list just keeps growing. It doesn't stop. it's all you keep seeing is everything that's piling up. Like your Christmas, you're putting up Christmas, the dinner, everything that's going along. And when you're not producing, how does that feel? And what are you going to do? why rest feels like a failure, but your body needs that to heal. And we tie our worth to our output and recovery rips that illusion apart. And we're not able to actually truly embrace the recovery that we need because we force ourselves to go and do, or we think we can when we should listen to our body a little more and rest. Like you're still in a healing part. You just had major spinal surgery and for you, but for other people, Kelly Williams (30:03) Yes. Mm-hmm. SSS Podcast (30:23) Sometimes your body is screaming at you to stop, to take that moment and pause and rest and we don't listen because we are such a go, go, go or we have to produce or we have to do this and it's okay to sit by the side and take that moment, especially if you're a caregiver. think Mindy, you were talking, you were sharing a story of somebody that you knew that was having a moment. Mindy (30:47) Yeah, it was the saddest thing. I read it last night actually on Facebook. Yeah, people are still on Facebook, y'all. And this person that I have huge admiration for, I did not ask her permission to give her name or many of the details. So I'll speak of it in general, but there could be some people that can relate. She basically posted. SSS Podcast (30:56) lot of us. Mindy (31:12) I am done. Unfortunately, her husband was diagnosed with a very severe C-word cancer and they also have a child that has some special needs and then they have several other children and she's been doing everything and has been super faithful and trying to stay so positive. So that caregiver and she basically was like, I'm just spent. I'm done. And she did say, she was like, don't tell me to pray on it. I'm praying and nothing's happening. And so I didn't comment y'all. What I did, of course I put the care emoji on it and I just turned my phone off and I started praying for her. I'm sorry to get emotional, but I feel so badly. What can I do for her? I send her messages every now and then. I try to be there, but. Kelly Williams (31:59) Mm-hmm. Mindy (32:08) Words are just words. live in different states. She's going through so much and she was so, but god, Leah did not know I was gonna get so emotional. And this is just me and my feelings towards her. She's going through so much. And so I just prayed. I was like, you know what? You can't pray, but I can. And I have seen the power of work and you know, there's a plan for everything and we don't. Kelly Williams (32:27) Sure. Mindy (32:35) We don't always understand it and sometimes it's not the outcome that we want, but it's that strength and that faith and other people having that faith for you. And Natalie, thinking about the rest that you have to have, she hasn't been able to have a lot of rest. She's got so many responsibilities. And Kelly, you and I talked about years ago having a podcast or doing something regarding caregivers. Because we've been caregivers and you the death rate, mortality rate of caregivers who are perfectly healthy but because they don't take the break and on the outside they look like they are okay but they are struggling. I personally know this struggle and maybe that's why I'm so emotional about it. Kelly Williams (33:25) Statistically, it's a very high mortality rate of caregivers dealing with those who are terminally ill. That was what my research project was for my doctorate. And it may have changed now. That was some years ago. But it was in the high 80 percentile of the death of perfectly healthy caregivers who just go to the point where they can't do it anymore. Mindy (33:36) Mm-mm. Kelly Williams (33:53) And we talked about, mean, I had a lot of my friends offer, you know, meal trains and stuff. And I said, you know, that's fantastic. Thank you. But right now it's Christmas. We've got so much food. I said, where you can help me is at some point, pick me up and take me to the store because I can't drive right now. When I was taking care of my husband who had cancer, there were times Mindy that you and I would go walking and I would cry the whole time. And I would be like, I can't do it anymore. I can't do it. I'm trying I'm getting my doctorate. I work full-time I'm taking care of this man who has brain cancer and have the time he's he's down and out other time he's trying to steal the car and go drive and I he did several times and then Yeah, stole the car and then I took the keys and he tried to go on the damn lawnmower Mindy (34:33) He did. Do not try. He was successful. SSS Podcast (34:41) Is it stealing if it's his car? I'm just saying. Kelly Williams (34:45) It was my car. He stole my car. And then got locked out of it and got locked out. It was walking home. Anyway, it was a whole poop show. But there were times where, yes, I had people offered to bring meals and everything. But if you know someone who's going through this, one of the best gifts that was ever given to me was my time. And that was... Mindy (34:54) early. Kelly Williams (35:13) Lance's very best friend, Mark Warman, God bless him, would call and say, hey, chica. He's still to this day calls me, hey, chica, you need a break? And I'm like, yes. He would drive in from Austin and stay for a weekend and like just say, go, I got this. And I would go with my girlfriends. One time he came and stayed for a week and I went on a cruise. That was the best thing I needed because I just needed to know that Kelly was still somewhere in there. Because you become Lance's caregiver, your daughter's caregiver, or your mom's caregiver, your father's caregiver, and you lose your identity. And sometimes the best gift in the world, of course, is a meal when you're tired of cooking and everything. But sometimes it's like, hey, let me come and sit with your loved one and you go get your hair done. Or you just go to the park and get in the swing. Or you just go to the beach and stick your toes in the sand. Or just go sit outside and get 15 minutes of just time. Because time is so little of what we get. That is one of the best gifts you can give someone. It's just letting them relearn who they are and know that they're still in there because you lose yourself so much. When I saw my mother-in-law taking care of my father-in-law who had severe, severe dementia, we were really afraid she was gonna go before he was because it just wore her down so bad. So caregivers need care too. They need that attention, they need that love, they need that, and they're the last ones to ask for it. They're gonna be the last ones to ask for it, absolutely. And I stood there this morning mad at my husband because I walked in with my arms held out and he grabbed my hands. I'm like, really? He goes, what? I said, I want you to take my shirt off, I need help. And then he got upset with me because he couldn't read my mind and I didn't communicate and I stood there crying because I can't get myself dressed. it's an emotional time. like I said, he's a great caregiver. It's just, I'm trying to do as much as I can for myself because this is not what he signed up for nor do I want him to have to do this because at some point he's going to have to go back to work. So when Natalie talked about being stubborn, yes, that's me. think that's most women. Really, I think that's most women who are used to doing the care for everyone and suddenly we have to sit down and be cared for. It's like, oh hell no, it doesn't work. That's not in our psyche of how things work for us. So if you know someone who's going through, you know, what either myself or another loved one is going, you know, Mindy's friend, what she's going through, what Mindy went through with her mom. know, Natalie takes care of her mom. Sometimes it's like, just let me get the F out of here for 30 minutes and just take a deep breath. And sometimes I just need to get away from my husband and say, you know what? You're just not caregiving, right? But he's doing a fabulous job. He's doing a fabulous job. Mindy (38:19) It's all about communication too. And so to go back, one of the things that really helped me was, and it was very hard for me, and I moved my mom in on multiple occasions. I bought a huge house at one point in time that she had her own quarters and I just thought for sure it was gonna work out and I felt like a failure. Kelly Williams (38:22) One in a percent. One in a percent. SSS Podcast (38:35) you Mindy (38:43) because it didn't. I could not get her to take her medicine and my mom would go catatonic. We spent months and months in the hospital and different things and you just talk about so depressing and you want to be able to control things. And I was up in Colorado. So my brother lived in Colorado at the time and he and I don't fight. Like we get along so well. That guy knows everything about me. And he just put his foot down and he's my younger brother by nine years. And he was like, Mindy. I, we're done. We're done with you trying to handle this by yourself. He was in the military. He could not come down and be there for me with all the things that were happening with my mom. He's like, we've got to move her into a place. You cannot do this on your own. And y'all, I was so mad. My kids are like, why is mom? Cause they were younger, of course. And they're like, why is mom so mad at uncle Michael? I mean, viscerally mad. was. angry and I was just not happy and I wasn't saying words that were rude. They could see it on my face. Like it was like, my gosh, like something evil is coming out of her. But it was all the emotions of, of feeling like a failure and like, I can't do this. And then I finally was just like, fine. And so I went and I started touring places and finding a spot for her. And when we were able to move her in somewhere and we went through a couple different ones, we had some different things that happened. But it took me a while to get over the guilt of giving up. But what I realized, and this isn't everybody's situation, but it was my situation. What I realized was I was able to be more fully present. I wasn't as frustrated. I tried not to be short with her, but when I would leave, I would be so frustrated about the things that I wanted to say, but I didn't want to her feelings and. Instead, literally, when we finally found the right spot for her, I was able to be the best caregiver that I could be. And I was able to befriend all the nurses and they loved my mom. And when the days were good, the days were good. And when they weren't, we worked through it. And what a blessing that we were able to do that. And I know that that's hard on some people, depending on your financial situation. And I learned a lot. was like, my gosh, if you're freaking broke and on Medicaid you get it's paid for but if you don't have long-term care insurance y'all I would suggest looking into it we didn't so all this money came out of pocket and it was but it but for my mental health for myself it really did help but that was that was one of the hardest things for me was to go I can't I cannot do it anymore and go ahead Kelly Williams (41:05) Yes. SSS Podcast (41:24) So being a caregiver, it's one of those things like you're a control freak, Mindy. That's no surprise to anybody if you're just listening and learning that about Mindy. Mindy is a very control freak. She likes things nice, clean, and in their place, which she is a great compliment to our team because I'm a little more spastic. And Kelly too. So Mindy brings us all together with that nice polished look. you know, it's control, you're giving up that control to somebody else and you're taking a backseat, but you're not really taking a backseat, you're putting yourself first. So how do you navigate those waters when you're trusting others? And how do you even articulate what you need? When somebody's coming to you, like I wanna do a meal train or I wanna give you a door dash card or I wanna start a GoFundMe or a Gibson Go, whatever. Being able to articulate what you need. So as a friend, Don't be selfish in your giving of what it is you're looking to do or to help. Like you can't necessarily always go to somebody else's town, but how can you help? And ask those questions. Say, know you're not gonna wanna answer this, but I want to help you how. How can I help you from afar? Or how can I help you with this circumstance? I don't have a lot of money, but I have more time. I can come on a Saturday and let you go get a pedicure. If that's what you desire. They may not want a pedicure. They may want to go just sit in the park and swing. I told Kelly and Mindy a story. One of my friends has a child that is severely autistic. And I say child, he's a man child. He's in his twenties and he's six, three. And he has seizures, school grandma seizures, multiple a day sometimes. He has good days and bad days. She'll post pictures of the blood from the house from him, you know, having all this. They have a handyman on call that comes and repairs sheetrock. They've got beds around his room because of the seizures and the windows covered. it's just, you know, a whole different life of having a man child that's autistic and being the caregiver as an aging mom. And how do you navigate those waters? But how do you ask for help when she can't even get a daycare to watch her son because he is violent at times and has these other issues? Kelly Williams (43:21) Right. Thank you. SSS Podcast (43:34) how do you get help when you don't even know what helps available or what you can and the resources and that's like Kelly saying keep looking keep asking look for programs and talk to other people and see what's available out there because Somebody will help so the whole family got the flu and it's like we just pulled together as a community and we're just bringing you know soups and meals and dropping them off outside the home so that they could have because we knew the way that they ate we knew the things that they liked and and Graninger refrigerator gets full sometimes and you'll have to throw away food But at least that's one less thing you have to worry about in that situation But like like you said Kelly having a friend that came and gave you that week were pre that's that's amazing Kelly Williams (44:08) Right. that was huge. SSS Podcast (44:16) and truly Kelly Williams (44:16) Well, like you were saying with your friend, when the son would finally go to sleep, sometimes you said she would sneak off to the park next door and just swing. And that's... Yeah. Yeah. SSS Podcast (44:25) just swing and you post videos of her just swinging. She's like, this is me. This is my time. And then she also would write about some of those experiences and stuff just cause she's a writer as well. But she's, she's lost herself. I mean, she's still trying to hold onto herself, but she's put herself on the back burner because caregiving takes so much of her time. And you know, the husband's out working, trying to make and keep everything together so they can afford the care for him. And you know, it's, it's, it's a juggling. A juggling act and everything on the appearance when you see her she does tough mudder She's still you know she's trying to do things to keep keep herself active because she can't afford to let herself go Because she has this man child she has to care for and pick him up off the floor or whatever She has going on we can't even imagine what truly goes on because she only posts clips and that's you know, like Kelly Williams (45:03) Sure. Right. You just, you do. You have to put yourself in that other person's position and it's very difficult. I can't even imagine what it would be like. I took care of a man child, I guess, so to speak, once Lance got progressed. And his progression, at the point where he was like that, was about the last three months that he was bedridden and he couldn't get up and move around. So I never dealt with the... with the violence other than him telling me and to shut up one day because we were being too loud, which is totally out of his character. So Mindy and I were like... SSS Podcast (45:50) Y'all will probably be in the room. Kelly Williams (45:52) Woo woo! We would get loud and he would turn the TV up. And then we'd get louder and he would turn the TV up. Mindy sets up and he goes, Mindy, shut up! And we were like, yeah, just, we were like, wow. And he was just so not like that. you know, I think I want to hit on one thing is that when you become the caregiver, the nice thing, the nice transition that I saw in Mindy was, Mindy (46:00) He said sit down and shut up! Kelly Williams (46:21) when she finally made that decision, she got to be the daughter. And that is, she got to come and watch her favorite program in the afternoon with her mom and didn't have to worry about had she taken her medication, had she taken her bath, had she done this, had she done that. It was like, I've got to be there at this time and I bring her her favorite food. We're going to sit there and drink our Sprite and watch our Jeopardy or Wheel of Fortune or whatever, Wheel of Fortune and just have. Mindy (46:46) Thanks Kelly Williams (46:49) mother-daughter time. my hairdresser that I have right now, she's an only child and I'm an only child. And essentially, Mindy, you're kind of an only child because your brother's military service. But her mom is going through a lot of the dementia transition right now. And literally, was getting my hair, getting my hair did not too long ago. And in the span of an hour and a half, her mother called her three times. and asked her the exact same question. And she was so frustrated. And by the end of the hair episode, my episode, the hair time, we had started talking about, at some point she's gonna have to do something. Her mom called her screaming at her because she couldn't find the car keys. Well, guess what? And the insurance people called and her mom had actually transferred insurance to somebody else. And so she had to go back and undo that. And she was like, mom, if they call, don't answer. Well, the minute she hung up the phone, she couldn't remember that. And I finally told her, I said, for your peace of mind and for the safety of your mom, I said, what if you come home and your mom has accidentally burned your house down and her in it and all of your pets because she's cooking and she forgets and she turns on, she walks off? Or what if she walks out in the middle of the street in the middle of the night and can't find her way home? There are things that you have to do. And I said, I know it's hard. But literally the last three times I've gone to get my hair done, it ends up with hurt and tears. And I said, I'm not trying to hurt your feelings. I'm just trying to give you a big dose of reality and to help you and walk this journey with you because at some point you have a business that you have to run. You have two daughters that also depend on you and you have yourself to depend on and your mom depends on you and you cannot do it all by yourself. And she's doing every bit of it by herself. And that's what That's what people have to understand is it is okay, my God, my God, my God is okay to not be okay and have to ask for help. I hate asking for help. just, would, I would, it's the last thing I'd ever want to do. But I'm at the point now where I'm asking for help. So I'll probably have these two on the hook before too long to say, guess what? Time to come pick me up or something. But if you are struggling with anything, whether it's your own personal care or the care of a loved one or you have a friend, you know, reach out for those resources, the resources of adaptive equipment, the resources of additional care, of friendships, of whatever, and do not be ashamed of it because it is, you may pay it forward because I tell you what, my thing was I've been doing physical therapy for 35 years, I've been a caregiver to patients and been a resource and have been a mentor, and all of a sudden I'm like, Wow, at one point I'm like, is this my karma? Did I do something bad? Because it's come back and bit me in the booty big time. But now I realize how blessed and fortunate I am that I have the knowledge that I've got because I can reach out for those resources. I know where to look for those resources. But now I think more than anything, I'm going to document my journey. So people who maybe don't have the background I have, it will maybe make it just a little bit easier for them. But my My biggest advice to anyone is ask for help. Ask for help. Mindy (50:21) Absolutely. It took me seven SSS Podcast (50:21) Yeah, so we're, Mindy (50:22) long years, seven long years to ask for help. And I want to circle back around to something that you said when you said Wheel of Fortune, it made me think about my mom. And I still have a friend who will send me a picture of her watching Wheel of Fortune, just thinking about you. And I know everybody responds in different ways. But the other thing that I want to say is because we do lose people. And as we get older, my father-in-law was talking to me about how Kelly Williams (50:39) Aww. Mindy (50:50) you know, getting older and your friends are starting to pass away and I think there's an age you get to where you're hearing more and more about your classmates and their family members. I would say check in and don't just check. When you know somebody's going through something, check in. They may not respond to you, but it's that simple text. It's that handwritten card. And then it's like after a death, everybody's like so... Aware of what you're going through in the first week after it may be the first two weeks after you're hearing from everybody and then it dissipates but you're also dealing with all the first after that loved one is gone and so just checking in and if the person says hey I'm not the person that likes that that's okay, too, but I think checking in even after it's been a while is super important because you know, having so much loss and going through so many things at a young age when my best friend passed away and then 10 days later, my best friend dad passed away. And then, you know, all of that, but I instantaneously had to take care of my mom. And then, you know, she was so good for years. And then for seven years, it was basically hell. And a lot of the situations and when she passed, it was just this emotional roller coaster of things. And the people that checked in It truly truly helped me through it and so thinking of that friend that literally here it is a few years later will send me a picture for watching Willow Fortune. Sometimes y'all it hits me and it makes me you know a little bit sappy and then other times it just makes me laugh and it's like I haven't watched Wheel of Fortune in a while even though what is it Pat Sajak's no longer the the host is Ryan Seacrest. It's different. It's those little things that Kelly Williams (52:25) That's why it's Ryan Seacrest. That's the weirdest thing, but oh well, anyway. Mindy (52:34) that you can do and checking in on, like with you Kelly, people will, you've only last week was your surgery and a couple weeks from now everybody's gonna think you're okay. And you might not have as many people that aren't as close to you in your circle checking in. And then those that do, knowing your personality, it means a lot. You may not know what to say, but a simple text message is super important, just thinking about you. Kelly Williams (52:53) Yeah. SSS Podcast (52:58) So as we wrap, where are you healing? Like what can we pray for? Like where are you hurting that no one sees? Like sometimes just verbalizing it and getting it out there is so important and just a relief to you to be able to get it off your chest. We're here for you. know, cheers to you. We appreciate you. We love you. We thank you. Don't forget to subscribe to Sugar Spice and Spirits podcast. Keep Kelly in your prayers too. as she's still on her healing journey and her recovery. So we just love and appreciate you here. Sugar Spice and Spirits, thank you guys so much and have a blessed day.